lukethethird
unknown member
Jesus and certainly in the same sentence seems a bit of a stretch.
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Did Jesus Christ actually die?
- Thread starter Eddi
- Start date
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Are you sure?
Oh drat!!
I was hoping that Vlad the Impaler, aka Dracula, was Jewish:
Vlad the Impaler - Wikipedia
He was Christian. So I guess that following John 6 53 would be no problem for him.
Micah 5:2 and Matthew 2:1 both mention Jesus being born in Bethlehem.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
If that's true then it weakens the rest of the claims made in the NT. At best Jesus would be a metaphorical messiah, a metaphorical savior, a metaphorical king. Not a literal messiah, a literal savior, a literal king.
Perhaps the entire story is metaphorical then, and the miracles weren't real either.
See how that works?
You said "prophecies they didn't believe were rejected out of pride and religious traditions."
Pride? No. It's based on what is said in the NT. If you claim that it's metaphorical, then that makes a weak basis for claims that Jesus is the literal Jewish messiah.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Why would he have been in Bethlehem? The author of Matthew wrote that because he knew the prophesy, not because Jesus was born there. For example one cannot navigate by stars that way. They do not hang over a particular town much less a particular building. Sit up one night and follow what the stars do at night. Nor is there any record of Herod's murder of the innocents. A story filled with holes is not good evidence.
In the context Jesus was talking about either communion or him being the vine. Jesus also called himself the bread of life. He wasn't talking about cannibalism.
It's not unlikely that Jesus's parents moved from Nazareth to Bethlehem.
The details about navigating the stars has nothing to do with the Old Testament prophecies matching Jesus or not. The Old Testament has miracles like the talking donkey. The stars were meant to be a miracle and a sign and they don't contradict Old Testament prophecies.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
The point is:
Rejecting Jesus is not about pride. It's about what is said in the NT.
Saying that he knew the prophecy is cryptic like the Nostradamus prophecies.
The Jews interpreted the prophecies based on their expectations of the Messiah being a political Savior and that was not the mission of Jesus. It was to save us and to teach us how to live.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Did I say that? Actually the author of Matthew goth the "prophecy" that he relied on wrong in at least two different ways. First off it was not a prophecy. Read it in context. It is talking about an event that was occurring at that time. Second it does not claim that the mother would be a virgin. It only said "young woman". The source that the author of Matthew used was the Septuagint. A work in Greek and the word "almah" was mistranslated.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Actually the Jews based their rejection on the messianic prophecies that Jesus did not fulfill.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
So, does this mean you no longer think it was pride?
Jesus wasn't talking about drinking blood in that verse.
A maiden is a young woman who was assumed to be a virgin in those time periods.
The Pharisees interpreted the prophecy based on their pride.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Yet the author of that piece did use the Hebrew word for virgin elsewhere. And it still was not a prophecy
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Um . . . no. That is only what the Bible claims. You would need some reliable evidence to support your claim.
Maybe the word for virgin wasn't appropriate to use in that context. It's similar to Jesus was born of a virgin because He was God incarnate.