Did God made any mistake ?

[Trailblazer]

you would need argue that giving free will irrespective of all evil that would come about is more benevolent than preventing evil. Is this what you want to argue?

Yes, that is what I want to argue.

I will also argue that God is All-Knowing and All-Wise, and that means God knows more than any human and is wiser than any human. The logical implications of that are that if God gave man free will irrespective of all evil that would come about, allowing free will choices is more benevolent than preventing evil.

 

[Koldo]

Yes, that is what I want to argue.

I will also argue that God is All-Knowing and All-Wise, and that means God knows more than any human and is wiser than any human. The logical implications of that are that if God gave man free will irrespective of all evil that would come about, allowing free will choices is more benevolent than preventing evil.

Great.
Why do you consider it more benevolent for free will to exist than for evil not to exist?

 

[Trailblazer]

Logic says so.

Only YOUR logic says so.
MY logic does not say so.

 

[Koldo]

Only YOUR logic says so.
MY logic does not say so.

There is no 'my' or 'your' logic.

 

[Quintessence]

Human logic does not work in heavenly realm where Gods are human logic only work in our physical universe.

Well, if there's anything I've learned about classical monotheism it's the folly of applying a human conception of the world to it. That includes attempting to apply human logic to a fundamentally not-human, highly abstract, difficult to grasp god-concept.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Go ahead and make an argument for that, rather than making a mere statement out of the blue.
Let's see if you can make a case for that.

The rulse of this universe works according to the law of this cosmos (even science know physical law work) in other dimension where other laws are in place everything is differently put together, especially in realms of the Gods. There is only physical law in this universe because we are restricted by what our brain can recieve.
Only way to "brake out" of those laws is to realize the teaching of the Gods and Buddha, so for one who do not believe in Gods exisence will never be able to understand that every other realm that is above our physical realm has different law.
This realm is more or less for the stupid living beings (humans and animals)

 

[Trailblazer]

Great.
Why do you consider it more benevolent for free will to exist than for evil not to exist?

It is not ME who considers it more benevolent; it is God who considers it more benevolent, since it is the benevolent God who gave us free will.

Aside from that, this is about more than benevolence, it is about reality. The world could not function if humans did not have free will that allows them to make choices. What would be the alternative? If God overrode all our choices in order to prevent evil, we would be reduced to mere robots, puppets on a string.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Well, if there's anything I've learned about classical monotheism it's the folly of applying a human conception of the world to it. That includes attempting to apply human logic to a fundamentally not-human, highly abstract, difficult to grasp god-concept.

Glad i am not within the monotheistic belief system

 

[Koldo]

The rulse of this universe works according to the law of this cosmos (even science know physical law work) in other dimension where other laws are in place everything is differently put together, especially in realms of the Gods. There is only physical law in this universe because we are restricted by what our brain can recieve.
Only way to "brake out" of those laws is to realize the teaching of the Gods and Buddha, so for one who do not believe in Gods exisence will never be able to understand that every other realm that is above our physical realm has different law.
This realm is more or less for the stupid living beings (humans and animals)

The laws of physics are not the laws of logic.
Next argument?

 

[Trailblazer]

There is no 'my' or 'your' logic.

Indeed there is, because logic is a human construction and all humans think differently.

Aside from that, can you prove anything you are saying about God is true? If not, it is an argument from ignorance.

 

[Spirit of Light]

The laws of physics are not the laws of logic.
Next argument?

Lol.

 

[Quintessence]

Glad i am not within the monotheistic belief system

Eh, I'm indifferent to it, personally. Not all monotheism is of the classical variety that balls together all these omni-characteristics in ways that make no sense if one applies human logic to it. There's little logical foibles to be found in monotheistic pantheism, for instance. For gods that are the world, that they make mistakes is kind of a given. One need only look at the DNA replication process in biological organisms, for instance. Mistakes in that process are the spark that drives biological evolution and the existence of all biodiversity on our planet.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Eh, I'm indifferent to it, personally. Not all monotheism is of the classical variety that balls together all these omni-characteristics in ways that make no sense if one applies human logic to it. There's little logical foibles to be found in monotheistic pantheism, for instance. For gods that are the world, that they make mistakes is kind of a given. One need only look at the DNA replication process in biological organisms, for instance. Mistakes in that process are the spark that drives biological evolution and the existence of all biodiversity on our planet.

Do i understand you correctly that you only believe in a physically existance but not in non physical existance? (Could be read as other dimensions )

 

[Koldo]

It is not ME who considers it more benevolent; it is God who considers it more benevolent, since it is the benevolent God who gave us free will.

It seems you are presuming that God exists, as one of your premises, to argue that I am wrong. That will not do. You can't just presume that my conclusion is incorrect as part of your argument. You need to show that either my premises are incorrect or that my conclusion doesn't follow from them.

Aside from that, this is about more than benevolence, it is about reality. The world could not function if humans did not have free will that allows them to make choices. What would be the alternative? If God overrode all our choices in order to prevent evil, we would be reduced to mere robots, puppets on a string.

Would you feel like a puppet if someone prevented you from doing evil? If someone prevented you from killing someone else, would you be a mere puppet? I don't see why.

 

[Quintessence]

Do i understand you correctly that you only believe in a physically existance but not in non physical existance? (Could be read as other dimensions )

Not at all - the notion of something "not existing" or being "not real" isn't found in my worldview at all (short of abiding by cultural conventions for such things out of necessity). If I even ask the question if something is real, the answer is already yes - it is real-as-concept, or real-as-idea at a bare minimum. Instead I ask how I am able to experience something, or how others have described experiencing something. I'm not really a dualist though; I don't dichotomize the world into "physical" and "not physical." They are interwoven at all times in the human experience.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Not at all - the notion of something "not existing" or being "not real" isn't found in my worldview at all (short of abiding by cultural conventions for such things out of necessity). If I even ask the question if something is real, the answer is already yes - it is real-as-concept, or real-as-idea at a bare minimum. Instead I ask how I am able to experience something, or how others have described experiencing something.

Thank you for clerifying that for me

 

[Koldo]

Indeed there is, because logic is a human construction and all humans think differently.

Which doesn't mean there are multiple kinds of logical reasoning that contradict each other.

Can you show, for example, that the law of non-contradiction is false?

Aside from that, can you prove anything you are saying about God is true? If not, it is an argument from ignorance.

Anything such as...?

 

[Koldo]

Lol.

 

[Trailblazer]

It seems you are presuming that God exists, as one of your premises, to argue that I am wrong. That will not do. You can't just presume that my conclusion is incorrect as part of your argument. You need to show that either my premises are incorrect or that my conclusion doesn't follow from them.

If God does not exist, there is no argument, so we have to presume God exists for the sake of discussion.

You can't just presume that my conclusion is incorrect as part of your argument. You need to show that either my premises are incorrect or that my conclusion doesn't follow from them.

Would you feel like a puppet if someone prevented you from doing evil? If someone prevented you from killing someone else, would you be a mere puppet? I don't see why.

If another person prevented me from killing someone else I would consider it a favor, just like if another person prevented me from driving drunk, he would be doing me a favor.

But God is not a person.

If God prevented everyone who was about to do evil from doing evil that would upset the entire order of creation.
How would that be just and fair to all the other people who have to struggle and choose to do good by virtue of their own free will?

God is not responsible for the free will choices people make and if God took responsibility for our choices that would not be doing us any favors because in that case would never learn anything from the mistakes that we make. The whole purpose of life is to develop our character and learn what we need to learn in preparation for the next life. Taking our choices away is not doing us any favors.

If people do evil deeds they will have to pay for them in this life or in the next life. If good people are affected by their evil deeds, the good people will be recompensed by the courts in this life or by God in the next life.

 

[Koldo]

If God does not exist, there is no argument, so we have to presume God exists for the sake of discussion.

You can't just presume that my conclusion is incorrect as part of your argument. You need to show that either my premises are incorrect or that my conclusion doesn't follow from them.

We have a problem here.
No, we can't presume that God exists for the sake of the discussion. My argument leads to the conclusion that God doesn't exist. It would be contradictory to assume that God exists on this case.

If another person prevented me from killing someone else I would consider it a favor, just like if another person prevented me from driving drunk, he would be doing me a favor.

But God is not a person.

If God prevented everyone who was about to do evil from doing evil that would upset the entire order of creation.
How would that be just and fair to all the other people who have to struggle and choose to do good by virtue of their own free will?

I don't see any distinction between God preventing evil or another human preventing evil. You need to elaborate on where you see this distinction.

Why would it unjust and unfair to prevent evil? I have no idea on what you have in mind you say this.

God is not responsible for the free will choices people make and if God took responsibility for our choices that would not be doing us any favors because in that case would never learn anything from the mistakes that we make.

I will point it out again: It doesn't matter if God is responsible for the choices people make. It doesn't matter as far as my argument goes.

The whole purpose of life is to develop our character and learn what we need to learn in preparation for the next life. Taking our choices away is not doing us any favors.

If people do evil deeds they will have to pay for them in this life or in the next life. If good people are affected by their evil deeds, the good people will be recompensed by the courts in this life or by God in the next life.

This whole thing about the purpose of life is contradictory to God's existence since it would include evil.