Denying Your Child an Education with Critical Thinking Skills

[Gabethewiking]

Personally, I would leave very little in the hands of someone else to properly educate my child. I see school as, primarily, a place to become socialized and learn how to function in an environment with other people, and, secondarily, as a place to augment or supplement what I teach my child or guide them to learn on their own.

I understand that many people do not have this ability or inclination, but I see it as one of your paramount responsibilities for someone you bring into this world, to take personal responsibility to ensure they know how to learn and think.

So a hypothetical question, imagine you believe the world is flat and 6000 years old and a specific creator you call yahwa is controlling this disc, You would find yourself in a better place to educate your kids about, say, gravity then people being educated about gravity as well as having a rigid plan to follow that assist him in giving the best knowledge available for the kids?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

So a hypothetical question, imagine you believe the world is flat and 6000 years old and a specific creator you call yahwa is controlling this disc, You would find yourself in a better place to educate your kids about, say, gravity then people being educated about gravity as well as having a rigid plan to follow that assist him in giving the best knowledge available for the kids?

I can't quite parse your second question, but if I believed that the earth was 6000 years old, etc. - then, I imagine, I would ensure that I taught my children this, and why. Then again, I would have to be a fundamentally different person to believe this, so I can't say for sure.

 

[Gabethewiking]

I can't quite parse your second question, but if I believed that the earth was 6000 years old, etc. - then, I imagine, I would ensure that I taught my children this, and why. Then again, I would have to be a fundamentally different person to believe this, so I can't say for sure.

Yes, but my point is then, this person (the imaginary scenario) is incorrect, so the parent would indoctrinate their children into believing things that are false because he believes it...

But if you would send them to a proper school they would get educated about the real world whatever opinion the parents may hold, they would actually learn about the world they live in and not the world their parents believe in. See my concern?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Yes, but my point is then, this person (the imaginary scenario) is incorrect, so the parent would indoctrinate their children into believing things that are false because he believes it...

But if you would send them to a proper school they would get educated about the real world whatever opinion the parents may hold, they would actually learn about the world they live in and not the world their parents believe in. See my concern?

Not really. At no point was I condoning strictly home-schooling, nor was I saying what other people should do. I'm coming from the point-of-view of someone who understands that many important skills, such as critical thinking, can't be left up to somebody else to teach your children. People leave way too much in the hands of education systems which aren't designed for anything but a very cursory education.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

To be fair, there is little to no emphasis placed on critical thinking skills in education in the US at all.

I taught my child critical thinking skills before she started school. School killed it.

 

[logician]

Home schooling textbooks are short on the theory of evolution. If I had to bet, I'd be willing to gamble that the percentage of home schooled kids living in the Bible belt is much higher than the percentage living in the more enlightened areas of our country.

Think Progress » Home-school textbook market dominated by books skeptical of evolution.

You've hit the nail on the head here. I think home-schooling should be dissallowed except in extreme circumstances.

 

[AxisMundi]

Home schooling textbooks are short on the theory of evolution. If I had to bet, I'd be willing to gamble that the percentage of home schooled kids living in the Bible belt is much higher than the percentage living in the more enlightened areas of our country.

Think Progress » Home-school textbook market dominated by books skeptical of evolution.

Our kids attended public schools for a number of reasons.

Firstly, there are no secular private schools in our area.

Highly important peer interactions skills can only be developed in a social setting with a wide range of people with differing views, attitudes, backgrounds, etc. Home school doesn't allow for this type of environment, especially when a child's social interaction might be limited to "Christian home school clubs".

Businesses prefer accredited degrees from accredited schools.

We did, however, supplement our children's public education with "home schooling".

That, IMHO, is the best route to go, even if one runs into troubles with the teachers at times..

 

[AxisMundi]

You've hit the nail on the head here. I think home-schooling should be dissallowed except in extreme circumstances.

I disagree.

Tougher testing standards are what is required.

(Across the board with a change of curriculum for public schools, but we are debating homeschooling, of course. )

There are plenty of parents who don't home school their kids out of fear of the "anti-Christian, God hating Atheists".

I don't think the former should be punished merely because some parents want to turn their kids into Bible-Bots.

 

[ChristineES]

I finally saw this on HLN this morning and my only thought was to teach children both creation and evolution and let them decide for themselves. I don't think people realize that children are able to decide which they prefer.

 

[Gabethewiking]

I finally saw this on HLN this morning and my only thought was to teach children both creation and evolution and let them decide for themselves. I don't think people realize that children are able to decide which they prefer.

But what they prefer is irrelevant to Truth... No?
If your children would decide Creation, would you inform them that it is not true and against reality?

It is like saying that you tell your kids to Decide what 2 plus 2 is, and if they decide 5, that is fine and Correct..... See the problem here?

 

[AxisMundi]

I finally saw this on HLN this morning and my only thought was to teach children both creation and evolution and let them decide for themselves. I don't think people realize that children are able to decide which they prefer.

I don't think you realize anyone with a few brain cells to rub together doesn't realize exactly what your "idea" is for.

Having raised three, and being a proud grandparent, I don't sell kids short by any stretch of the imagination.

But young kids are highly susceptible to figures of authority, and take what is said at face value.

What you suggest is nothing other than the indoctrination of our Nation's youth using our public school systems, something that is not only undesirable in this secular nation, but something that is Constitutionally Illegal.

Religion, like Creationism, belongs in the home. It also belongs in church and parochial schools, institutions supported exclusively by those that look to that religion.

 

[Gabethewiking]

Religion, like Creationism, belongs in the home. It also belongs in church and parochial schools, institutions supported exclusively by those that look to that religion.

Just like rapists and child molesters....


Sorry, they are (Creationist) the same too me but getting of destroying a child mind instead of their body.

 

[ChristineES]

I don't think you realize anyone with a few brain cells to rub together doesn't realize exactly what your "idea" is for.

Having raised three, and being a proud grandparent, I don't sell kids short by any stretch of the imagination.

But young kids are highly susceptible to figures of authority, and take what is said at face value.

What you suggest is nothing other than the indoctrination of our Nation's youth using our public school systems, something that is not only undesirable in this secular nation, but something that is Constitutionally Illegal.

Religion, like Creationism, belongs in the home. It also belongs in church and parochial schools, institutions supported exclusively by those that look to that religion.

Putting words in my mouth? I don't even believe in "indoctrination". If you want to believe what you say here, I can't stop you- but what your interpretation of my post said was not what I meant. All I meant was that by the time a kid gets in high school (which is the usual age they teach this, at least in my time it was), they are perfectly capable of making up their own minds. They taught evolution at my school, and although they did not teach creation in any way, they did mention that some people do believe in it. Since my family was atheist at the time, I never gave it a second thought.

 

[linwood]

I finally saw this on HLN this morning and my only thought was to teach children both creation and evolution and let them decide for themselves. I don't think people realize that children are able to decide which they prefer.

So if my child prefers the Stork Theory over the actual sexual reproductive process of humans I should just teach her that instead?

I mean, what difference does it make which she believes?

It won`t have any "real" effect on her life anyways.

:areyoucra

 

[Gabethewiking]

Putting words in my mouth? I don't even believe in "indoctrination". If you want to believe what you say here, I can't stop you- but what your interpretation of my post said was not what I meant. All I meant was that by the time a kid gets in high school (which is the usual age they teach this, at least in my time it was), they are perfectly capable of making up their own minds. They taught evolution at my school, and although they did not teach creation in any way, they did mention that some people do believe in it. Since my family was atheist at the time, I never gave it a second thought.

But what does ones belief have to do with actual Evidence?

You seem to say, just as linwood said, that the Stork Theory is equal to the "other theory" about reproduction, let the kids make up their mind, evidence is not relevant.

Could you clarify what you mean as this is what is meant by your previous post, and atleast 3 other people thought so as well, so I am not alone on this.

 

[ChristineES]

So if my child prefers the Stork Theory over the actual sexual reproductive process of humans I should just teach her that instead?

I mean, what difference does it make which she believes?

It won`t have any "real" effect on her life anyways.

:areyoucra

I never said or insinuated anything of the sort. If you have a child in high school who still believes in storks and cabbage patch, then I would worry very much about that child. You seem to think that teaching a child anything about any religion would do harm, but I don't think so. In my history class, we learned about most major religions including Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, and Paganism along with Christianity. It did not cause anyone in the class to convert to these faiths. I was an agnostic at the time and it did not cause me to change my mind (that came after I graduated)

 

[AxisMundi]

Putting words in my mouth? I don't even believe in "indoctrination". If you want to believe what you say here, I can't stop you- but what your interpretation of my post said was not what I meant. All I meant was that by the time a kid gets in high school (which is the usual age they teach this, at least in my time it was), they are perfectly capable of making up their own minds. They taught evolution at my school, and although they did not teach creation in any way, they did mention that some people do believe in it. Since my family was atheist at the time, I never gave it a second thought.

I am not putting words in your mouth, you are parrotting exactly the "religious right" (which is neither) and one of their blatant, transperent attempts to reintroduce Creationism back into public schools.

 

[ChristineES]

But what does ones belief have to do with actual Evidence?

You seem to say, just as linwood said, that the Stork Theory is equal to the "other theory" about reproduction, let the kids make up their mind, evidence is not relevant.

Could you clarify what you mean as this is what is meant by your previous post, and atleast 3 other people thought so as well, so I am not alone on this.

First, I did not mean to say that they should teach creation at school- you are right to say that belongs in Church. Second, I only meant to say that kids have minds and if they hear contradictory messages, then they can decide for themselves what they wish to believe. If a parent wants to try talk their children out of it, they have that right. My own son is an agnostic, and I don't try to force him to believe in God.

 

[ChristineES]

I am not putting words in your mouth, you are parrotting exactly the "religious right" (which is neither) and one of their blatant, transperent attempts to reintroduce Creationism back into public schools.

I am a Christan but I am not am not a right-winger. I don't think they should teach creation in school, as I said in my last post. A child gets knowledge from other sources other than school, including their friends who may be religious, on television, etc. We can't monitor our children every second of every day. My daughter, on her own, decided to go to Church while her brother chooses not to. I never forced either one.

 

[AxisMundi]

I am a Christan but I am not am not a right-winger. I don't think they should teach creation in school, as I said in my last post. A child gets knowledge from other sources other than school, including their friends who may be religious, on television, etc. We can't monitor our children every second of every day. My daughter, on her own, decided to go to Church while her brother chooses not to. I never forced either one.

Then might I suggest you word your comments more carefully?