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Denying Your Child an Education with Critical Thinking Skills

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by The Voice of Reason, Mar 8, 2010.

  1. blackout

    blackout Violet.

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    I do not think though,
    that the books are creating fundamentalists.
    Nor do I think they have any influence
    on non fundamentalist home educators.

    Instead fundamentalists simply create a market
    for fundamentalist books.
    There are large pockets of fundamentalist homeschoolers
    BECAUSE of the fact
    that they don't want their kids being taught evolution in the schools.
    (amongst other "value/morality" issues)

    I haven't read the article though.
    perhaps I'm just restating the same idea.
     
  2. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason Doctor of Thinkology

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    No, I don't believe that. That particular meme is a strawman that you introduced when trying to show me to be intolerant of those that disavow the veracity of the theory of evolution. I didn't rebut it then, but it appears that you are now going to hinge all of your replies on your strawman.


    You mean, like you did to mine?


    And my point was that learning about evolution (in contrast with ID) teaches a child to use the skill of critical thinking. At no point did I make the claim that that is the only vehicle that can acheive this result.


    And here we have your reiteration of your strawman.



    Can you show me where my opinions are formulated without the use of critical thinking? Try not to confuse our disagreement with your strawman. That's just compounding the fallacy that you have now endorsed.


    Thank your God, if you choose. Better yet, thank the teacher that gave me the gift of logic and reasoning. Had you had such an education, we wouldn't have just wasted all this bandwidth trying to bring you up to speed.
     
  3. ChristineES

    ChristineES Tiggerism
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    I know you didn't mean it, but it seems by your title that if a person doesn't learn about Evolution then they can't have any critical thinking.
    I went to a school in High School that was mostly Christians and they taught evolution at the school- I know I learned about it (I took most of the science classes) I am sure that even home schooled children are required to learn it- but I don't even know what is required anymore.
    I personally don't believe that teaching about Evolution could cause any harm, and I don't believe a person needs to be an atheist to believe Evolution. But that's just me.
     
  4. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason Doctor of Thinkology

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    After re-reading the title, I have to agree Christine. I do think that I worded that poorly. Point taken. I should have made the position more clear in the title.
     
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  5. MysticSang'ha

    MysticSang'ha Big Squishy Hugger
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    What makes a parent think they can actually take care of a child - period - before having one? The experience of homeschooling is a lot like parenting.

    If you are skeptical of the ability of parents to homeschool children, I suggest to look into the results and see what homeschooled kids are doing now as adults, which universities they're being accepted into, what fields they're studying, how they're doing academically and socially, etc.

    The evidence points toward the majority of homeschooled children who are encouraged to think critically and who have fostered a love for learning succeeding greatly in adulthood.

    The way that we've defined education, itself, and how we mostly modelled it is sorely lacking once we introduce kids and teens into life outside the classroom.

    There are plenty - and I mean plenty - of homeschooled families out there that homeschool their children precisely because too many institutional schools do not provide critical thinking skills, project-collaboration with peers AND with people outside their age group, linguistics and communicative skills, and a definitive understanding of the scientific process using mathematic principles and sound logic.

    Now segue back to the OP, there are truly a significant number of homeschooled children who are indoctrinated to believe that evolution is merely a "theory", and that sets them up with a clear disadvantage. However, this is not the problem of homeschooling per se, but as Violet pointed out earlier.....it's the cultural conditioning of religious fundamentalism that is the problem.
     
  6. Kathryn

    Kathryn Most Spoiled Woman Ever

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    No one is forcing any home schooling family to stick to any one particular curriculum or to limit their study material to prescribed textbooks within a purchased curriculum program.

    I think that any home schooling family that limits their child's education to a set of textbooks or one particular set of ideas in general is doing their child a disservice. If I were homeschooling, I would make sure that my family was involved in a co-op that gave the kids the opportunity to think outside their particular family's "style" and modus operandum.
     
    #26 Kathryn, Mar 9, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010
  7. MysticSang'ha

    MysticSang'ha Big Squishy Hugger
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    Precisely. Good consortiums offer IMO camaraderie as well as offer opportunities for group community projects, field trips, and intensive sessions in various disciplines such as chemistry, biology, writer's labs, etc. This is the type of co-op that my daughter and I are a part of that we've finally found (most in our area are religious based that require a signed statement of faith in order to be a part of), and we're very happy with this.

    Every family truly is different, and even within families learning styles change from year to year. It is in this kind of diversity where kids learn best.
     
  8. monta

    monta .

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    In Ireland, if you get to school leaving age and haven't gotten an adequate education, you can sue the government for an infringement of your right to be educated. Are there any standards that home schooling has to meet in the US.
     
  9. MysticSang'ha

    MysticSang'ha Big Squishy Hugger
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    They are the same as other institutionalized schools (public, private, or parochial), and they vary from state to state.
     
  10. Kathryn

    Kathryn Most Spoiled Woman Ever

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    Mystic that's a great type of homeschooling - I'm so glad to hear you're doing that.

    My oldest daughter is homeschooling her four kids and she's very involved in the same type of co-op. Her kids seem to be doing very well.

    Homeschooling requires a lot of discipline on the part of the parents, and it's not for everyone. I did it myself for two years and though I enjoyed it for awhile, eventually with four kids it became an all consuming venture. My kids are close in age and I didn't have the patience to deal with four siblings all day every day. I freely admit it! I sent them all packing off to school - but this did leave me with time to really devote to putting together learning experiences and "learning trips" outside of school hours - and that worked well for my family.

    But I really do admire homeschoolers that have the patience and self discipline to do their job well.
     
  11. ShakeZula

    ShakeZula The Master Shake

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    It should be noted that if Texas is allowed to get their evolution-denying text books in their public schools, such text books could quickly become the norm in most public schools across the country. This is why what happens there is so important for the rest of the nation and why Evangelicals pull out all the stops when it comes to getting their agenda through to the school boards there.

    -S-
     
  12. MysticSang'ha

    MysticSang'ha Big Squishy Hugger
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    You homeschooled? That's so scandalous! :eek:

    Your daughter homeschools her kids? All four of them? That's doubly scandalous! :eek::eek:

    And you're Christians, too! RUN!! EVERYBODY RUN AWAY!!!

    .

    .

    .

    Just kidding. Most of the homeschooled families in our consortium are self-identified Christians, too. Not everybody is an evolution-denying Bible-beating fundamentalist, you know. ;)
     
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  13. TheKnight

    TheKnight Guardian of Life

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    You did not word your post that way.

    This resolves the issue I had with your post. I was under the impression (based on the title and your first post, that you believe a person cannot learn critical thinking without learning about evolution.

    I see now that such is not as you have intended, and therefore we have no disagreement.
     
  14. Gabethewiking

    Gabethewiking Active Member

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    This is true. If say a father or mother has time, IE, unemployed or similar, to teach their kids (truly teach them), they have plenty of good sources to use as well as they could SHOW their kids that THEY, as PARENTS are not all knowing people, they go through various things and then, as often happens, Mom/Dad has no idea, and she/he tells her/his kids, TEACHES them that to be ignorant is nothing to be ashamed of, but to PRETEND or LIE about something you do not know is the worst thing ever.

    "Oh sweetie, I have NO IDEA, I am going to have a look and try to find all the material you need for that okey, mom is simple ignorant of this".

    This is how I work towards my children (and wife), I make it very clear if I have limited or possible biased knowledge about something, for example, If I am asked about Quality/goodness of X, and I do not LIKE X, I will be clear, I will tell them

    "My PERSONAL SUBJECTIVE view on this is that X is BAD, I do not like X because of these reasons, THIS is the CAUSE for MY OWN dislike, but this is not "true" OR "false", it is merely my opinion based on my views, YOU may LIKE X for various reasons".

    I think this is important. Yes, Homeschooling COULD be good if the PARENTS are good, educated and intelligent and accept the real world, Religious parents should NEVER teach their kids anything as they will by default want to indooctrinate them into believing into gods or whatever they believe and Reality takes second place.
     
    #34 Gabethewiking, Mar 9, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010
  15. MysticSang'ha

    MysticSang'ha Big Squishy Hugger
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    For the most part, until your last paragraph, I agree.

    And this is why I find homeschooling and parenting to be quite similar. When kids ask a question whether it's educational or parental, and I don't know the answer.......I say, "Honestly babe, I don't know. But let's go figure this out."

    Sometimes I need outside help. That's OK.

    Sometimes it doesn't get solved overnight. That's OK too.

    And sometimes, there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer. But at least investigating the theories and ideas that regard the problem at hand..... That is OK, too.
     
  16. Panda

    Panda 42?
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    Actually my country has provided education to the masses since the 1600s, the first country since ancient times to do so. So home schooling has never really had that much of an influence over here.
     
  17. MysticSang'ha

    MysticSang'ha Big Squishy Hugger
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    So be it. :)
     
  18. Kilgore Trout

    Kilgore Trout Misanthropic Humanist

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    Personally, I would leave very little in the hands of someone else to properly educate my child. I see school as, primarily, a place to become socialized and learn how to function in an environment with other people, and, secondarily, as a place to augment or supplement what I teach my child or guide them to learn on their own.

    I understand that many people do not have this ability or inclination, but I see it as one of your paramount responsibilities for someone you bring into this world, to take personal responsibility to ensure they know how to learn and think.
     
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  19. Panda

    Panda 42?
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    But do you have the ability to teach them the subjects they want to do?
     
  20. Kilgore Trout

    Kilgore Trout Misanthropic Humanist

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    By the time my ability to educate them not would not be sufficient for a particular subject, I will have already done my job, and they will have a very solid foundation.
     
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