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Dawkins Supports Intelligent Design... just not by God.

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Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
The point is, Pete, that ID can't be put forth as a science because in order to do so it has to meet several requirements,such as being observable, testable and falsifiable, for example.
At this rate, people are worried about even broaching the subject. Look at the crap being thrown at me in here. You think this ONLY happens on RF? It's like playing some sort of intellectual whack-a-mole where bias is your only guide.
Also Benny Stein destroys his own credibility by attempting to use sensationalism and slander to discredit the theory of evolution. He presents it like it's some how mutually exclusive from god, which is patently false.
I think he exposed the "Good ol' Boy" network which does not allow thinking past the party line. He did NOT try to discredit evolution, but those who would evolution as a club against theists. I watched it twice and that was my take on it. Given the beating I am getting in here, I can only say: "DAMN! Ben, you hit the nail on the head!"
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
This thread is not truly about ID or evolution. It's about Pete trying to get one over on atheists.
Ah, now you are truly ot on to nothing. Zilch, nada and squat. Give it another think. What's the matter? Your evolutionary messiah not living up to his hype?

You know, it's amazing how many want to insult me MERELY BECAUSE I brought out this quote BY Dawkins. Keep insulting me. It speaks volumes about you, and absolutely nothing about me.

Please, my stance on evolution is well documented in this forum, as is my concept that theism and atheism are essentially equal any way you cut the mustard. But don't let those facts stop you from your RED HERRINGS.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
At this rate, people are worried about even broaching the subject. Look at the crap being thrown at me in here. You think this ONLY happens on RF? It's like playing some sort of intellectual whack-a-mole where bias is your only guide.
That's how science works. If something cannot stand up to critical and analytical scrutiny and cannot measure up when it comes to the facts, logic and evidence then it tends to get dismissed.

Science - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Scientific method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think he exposed the "Good ol' Boy" network which does not allow thinking past the party line. He did NOT try to discredit evolution, but those who would evolution as a club against theists. I watched it twice and that was my take on it. Given the beating I am getting in here, I can only say: "DAMN! Ben, you hit the nail on the head!"
Yes, Ben was trying to discredit evolution, which explains his attempt to draw parallels between Nazis and the theory and his attempt to portray evolution as mutually exclusive from god, both which are completely false. Mr. Clear Eyes needs to understand that the scientific field simply doesn't deal with the UNscientific.
 

gnomon

Well-Known Member
Ah, now you are truly ot on to nothing. Zilch, nada and squat. Give it another think. What's the matter? Your evolutionary messiah not living up to his hype?

You know, it's amazing how many want to insult me MERELY BECAUSE I brought out this quote BY Dawkins. Keep insulting me. It speaks volumes about you, and absolutely nothing about me.

Please, my stance on evolution is well documented in this forum, as is my concept that theism and atheism are essentially equal any way you cut the mustard. But don't let those facts stop you from your RED HERRINGS.

I get it now.

This is another Richard Dawkins is an anti-semite and gateway to Jewish genocide works of crap. Of course, much of this is revealed by your other thread.

I'll let the others continue to counter this fanciful hatred of yours while you nail yourself up. I think someone posted a video of a chimp drinking its own urine. Seems far more intellectually stimulating than this thread.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
The following quote implies that Stein thinks god and evolution are mutually exclusive (they're not) and that people deny the existence of god simply because they "fear his judgment", which is not only colossally nonsensical but implies that the concept of god is exclusively Abrahamic (hence the whole judgment and vengeance thing).

"No. I also think they don’t want there to be a God because if there’s a God they’re going to be judged, and they don’t want to be judged. And I don’t blame them for that – that’s sort of standard for human nature. But what we would like is for people who do have a belief in God to be able to express themselves without getting pushed out of their schools and jobs." – interview by World, April 19, 2008

From Wikipedia:

"Stein has publicly denounced the theory of evolution, which he and other intelligent design advocates term "Darwinism," declaring it to be "a painful, bloody chapter in the history of ideologies," "the most compelling argument yet for Imperialism," and the inspiration for the Holocaust.[22][23] Stein does not say belief in the theory of evolution alone leads to genocide, but that it is a necessary component.[24] He co-wrote and stars in Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, a film that aims to persuade viewers that the theory of evolution is partially responsible for the eugenics movement, the rise of Nazi Germany, and the Holocaust, and portrays advocates of intelligent design as victims of religious discrimination by the scientific community, which has rejected intelligent design as creationist pseudoscience.[25][26][27] The general media response to the film has been largely unfavorable. It received a 10% meta-score from Rotten Tomatoes. Multiple reviews, including those of USA Today and Scientific American, have described the film as propaganda.[25][26][27] The Chicago Tribune's rating was "1 star (poor),"[28] while the New York Times described it as "a conspiracy-theory rant masquerading as investigative inquiry" and "an unprincipled propaganda piece that insults believers and nonbelievers alike."[26] One of the few positive reviews appeared in Christianity Today.[29] Noted evolutionary biologist and atheist Richard Dawkins has strongly criticised Stein's film in an open letter on his website.[30]
In a Trinity Broadcasting Network interview with Paul Crouch Jr. regarding Stein's movie,[31] Stein made the following statement about science and religion:
Stein: When we just saw that man, I think it was Mr. Myers, talking about how great scientists were, I was thinking to myself the last time any of my relatives saw scientists telling them what to do they were telling them to go to the showers to get gassed … that was horrifying beyond words, and that’s where science — in my opinion, this is just an opinion — that’s where science leads you.
Crouch: That’s right.
Stein: …Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people.
Crouch: Good word, good word.
Stein was criticized by the Anti-Defamation League for the use of the Holocaust to further an anti-evolution agenda.[32] Asked for a comment about this by Vancouver Sun writer Peter McKnight for a critical article about Expelled, Stein replied, "It's none of their ******* business."[33]
Due in part to the notoriety he received for a talk he gave on economics at the University of Vermont, Stein was invited to be the commencement speaker at the graduation ceremony for the class of 2009. After the announcement, university president, Dan Fogel, notified Stein that a number of people had complained about Stein speaking at the commencement and receiving an honorary degree from the school, so that when he came he "would not be blindsided". The complaints were because his views of science were "affronts to the basic tenets of the academy." Due to the furor, Stein "immediately and most graciously declined his commencement invitation".[34] When asked about the episode by the Burlington Free Press, Stein said that describing his views as "antithetical to scientific inquiry" was "a wildly unfair characterization." He went on to say that he is not anti-science.[35]"

In conclusion, a man who's insight and commentary regarding evolution and science is entirely worthless.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
The following quote implies that Stein thinks god and evolution are mutually exclusive (they're not) and that people deny the existence of god simply because they "fear his judgment", which is not only colossally nonsensical but implies that the concept of god is exclusively Abrahamic (hence the whole judgment and vengeance thing).

"No. I also think they don’t want there to be a God because if there’s a God they’re going to be judged, and they don’t want to be judged. And I don’t blame them for that – that’s sort of standard for human nature. But what we would like is for people who do have a belief in God to be able to express themselves without getting pushed out of their schools and jobs." – interview by World, April 19, 2008

From Wikipedia:

"Stein has publicly denounced the theory of evolution, which he and other intelligent design advocates term "Darwinism," declaring it to be "a painful, bloody chapter in the history of ideologies," "the most compelling argument yet for Imperialism," and the inspiration for the Holocaust.[22][23] Stein does not say belief in the theory of evolution alone leads to genocide, but that it is a necessary component.[24] He co-wrote and stars in Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, a film that aims to persuade viewers that the theory of evolution is partially responsible for the eugenics movement, the rise of Nazi Germany, and the Holocaust, and portrays advocates of intelligent design as victims of religious discrimination by the scientific community, which has rejected intelligent design as creationist pseudoscience.[25][26][27] The general media response to the film has been largely unfavorable. It received a 10% meta-score from Rotten Tomatoes. Multiple reviews, including those of USA Today and Scientific American, have described the film as propaganda.[25][26][27] The Chicago Tribune's rating was "1 star (poor),"[28] while the New York Times described it as "a conspiracy-theory rant masquerading as investigative inquiry" and "an unprincipled propaganda piece that insults believers and nonbelievers alike."[26] One of the few positive reviews appeared in Christianity Today.[29] Noted evolutionary biologist and atheist Richard Dawkins has strongly criticised Stein's film in an open letter on his website.[30]
In a Trinity Broadcasting Network interview with Paul Crouch Jr. regarding Stein's movie,[31] Stein made the following statement about science and religion:
Stein: When we just saw that man, I think it was Mr. Myers, talking about how great scientists were, I was thinking to myself the last time any of my relatives saw scientists telling them what to do they were telling them to go to the showers to get gassed … that was horrifying beyond words, and that’s where science — in my opinion, this is just an opinion — that’s where science leads you.
Crouch: That’s right.
Stein: …Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people.
Crouch: Good word, good word.
Stein was criticized by the Anti-Defamation League for the use of the Holocaust to further an anti-evolution agenda.[32] Asked for a comment about this by Vancouver Sun writer Peter McKnight for a critical article about Expelled, Stein replied, "It's none of their ******* business."[33]
Due in part to the notoriety he received for a talk he gave on economics at the University of Vermont, Stein was invited to be the commencement speaker at the graduation ceremony for the class of 2009. After the announcement, university president, Dan Fogel, notified Stein that a number of people had complained about Stein speaking at the commencement and receiving an honorary degree from the school, so that when he came he "would not be blindsided". The complaints were because his views of science were "affronts to the basic tenets of the academy." Due to the furor, Stein "immediately and most graciously declined his commencement invitation".[34] When asked about the episode by the Burlington Free Press, Stein said that describing his views as "antithetical to scientific inquiry" was "a wildly unfair characterization." He went on to say that he is not anti-science.[35]"

In conclusion, a man who's insight and commentary regarding evolution and science is entirely worthless.

It seems Ben is a bit of a liar.
 

Luminous

non-existential luminary
That's a GROSS overstatement. Heck, I believe in evolution! I think it's funny that Mr Eloquence was caught supporting aliens.
No he wasn't; Stein asked him to give an explanation parallel to religious ID. So he made up the possibility that aliens did it (scientology)
At least he didn't resort to crystals. I have encountered it many times and many of those were right here on this forum.
Like holy FSM, you can have your non-obstructive religion, i just would rather you didn't
I will ALWAYS see you as a friend. That does not mean that our discussions can't be sharp and to the point. In fact, I feel FREE to let you know precisely what I feel because of our friendship. Part of being a true friend is sometimes being brutally honest. You have always been so for me, and I don't think I have let you down one whit in that regards either. You have said nothing to hurt me, and I hope that I did not come across as trying to ever hurt you!
nothing more to write.
 

Nepenthe

Tu Stultus Es
Yes, Stein's abject ignorance is astounding. Who knew a speechwriter for Nixon would be such a lying scumbag?
Scuba Pete's threads make this loop through my mind again and again....
An_End_to_Gopher_Trouble.gif
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
The whole panicky defensive groupthink that pops up against ID has the air of McCarthyism about it. Surely we can be more mature as a society. (although fart jokes should be protected at all costs;)).

The fact that you think it's a "panicky groupthink" says volumes. The opposition to ID is solely in reference to it being included in science classes or considered science at all. No one cares whether people believe in ID (well, nobody significant anyway). It's not an opposition to ID because of its religious connotation. Most opponents of it, especially here on RF, don't mind it being discussed as a subject in a religion class or something like that. But until IDers can come up with any scientific evidence that could support their hypothesis, it simply isn't science and shouldn't be taken as anything other than a religious belief.
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
I think it's funny that Mr Eloquence was caught supporting aliens.

I'm assuming "Mr. Eloquence" is Richard Dawkins. If so, would you mind posting what you found where he was caught supporting aliens? I'd sure like to see it.

Oh, and please don't post the OP again, since that doesn't show him supporting aliens.
 
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