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Dangers Of Being Male & Accused Of Rape At Colleges

PureX

Veteran Member
I think it's hard to actually determine the numbers here. I've seen this graphic before:

B4WmQiVIUAA9i82.jpg


One can interpret this in any number of ways. One can equally presume that those who are not found guilty in a court of law and jailed were not proven guilty and therefore "innocent." At least according to the principle of "innocent until proven guilty." But if a person is accused and found "not guilty," does that mean they were "falsely accused"? If so, then that would raise the stats up considerably in terms of how many "false accusations" there are.

Then there's the issue of "unreported rapes," which begs the question - how do they know they're unreported if they're...unreported?
I expect the graphic is probably fairly accurate because the data would not be difficult to obtain. One only need anonymously survey a significant cross-section of the female population about their experiences with unwanted sexual contact, from men. And then by asking the appropriate questions, determining how many of these unwanted sexual contacts rose to the legal definition of 'rape'. And then asking further questions about how they responded to the crime, and what result they got from their response. There really would be no reason for these women to lie about it in an anonymous survey, as there would be nothing for them to gain from lying.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Congrats on managing to dis everyone from SJWs to men to women to
Americastanians to the mentally ill. The post deserves an award of some kind.
The only people who were "dissed" by this post were the ignoramuses to which I referred. And most of them are too stupid to know who they are.
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
All false reports of rape, are reported. Very few actual rapes are reported. When we stand the false reports of rape against the number of actual rapes, the 'percentage' shrinks enormously.

How do you know that unreported rapes are all true?
 

PureX

Veteran Member
How do you know that unreported rapes are all true?
Rape is rape, reported or not. That is always true.

Not all reported rapes are true, but as it's both difficult and humiliating to prosecute a rape charge and get a conviction, there is no logical reason to make such a charge, falsely, as there is nothing to be gained by it.
 
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Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Taking the article at face value....

"The training mandate originated with the Obama administration’s 2011 “Dear Colleague” letter, which
dictated campus procedures for sexual-assault allegations that dramatically increased the chances of
guilty findings. Expanded guidance in 2014 from the Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights
ordered that the training include “the effects of trauma, including neurobiological change”—a phrase
pregnant with hidden meaning. The Obama training requirements (without the “neurobiological change”
part) were then formalized in a binding federal regulation in 2015."

.....the fed would be culpable.
I quoted and linked to the OCR's guidance above. What's culpable about it?
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
Rape is rape, reported or not. That is always true.

Not all reported rapes are true, but as it's both difficult and humiliating to prosecute a rape charge and get a conviction, there is no logical reason to make such a charge, falsely, as there is nothing to be gained by it.

That's a false conclusion. How can a rape be a rape if it never happened? People say all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. Perhaps they want revenge for something, perhaps they want to get a payout, etc. There are both logical and emotional reasons for making false accusations. If you were correct that no false charges are ever made, then slander wouldn't exist.

Do you believe that the FBI is lying when it reports that 8% of reported rapes turned out to be false after investigation?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
That's a false conclusion. How can a rape be a rape if it never happened? People say all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. Perhaps they want revenge for something, perhaps they want to get a payout, etc. There are both logical and emotional reasons for making false accusations. If you were correct that no false charges are ever made, then slander wouldn't exist.

Do you believe that the FBI is lying when it reports that 8% of reported rapes turned out to be false after investigation?
And outside of that 8%, many are undetermined.
This points out the importance of good & open investigations, & following the rule of law.
The rights of all must be protected, even if some malefactors (either accuser or accused)
occasionally go free.
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
And outside of that 8%, many are undetermined.
This points out the importance of good & open investigations, & following the rule of law.
The rights of all must be protected, even if some malefactors (either accuser or accused)
occasionally go free.

Frighteningly, it looks like we are headed to a place where an accusation is all the proof that is needed.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Frighteningly, it looks like we are headed to a place where an accusation is all the proof that is needed.
It's a problem in universities, where it's a parallel justice system with lower standards & more emotion.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
That's a false conclusion. How can a rape be a rape if it never happened?
It can't. So they ALL happened. Whether they were reported or not.
People say all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. Perhaps they want revenge for something, perhaps they want to get a payout, etc. There are both logical and emotional reasons for making false accusations. If you were correct that no false charges are ever made, then slander wouldn't exist.
Regardless, the charge is still extremely difficult and humiliating to prove. And any man who is charged will know that. So I think it's very unlikely that anyone is paying anyone off for rapes that never happened.

On the other hand, I think there are a lot of men who want to believe that is happening. And someone ought to be asking them why.
Do you believe that the FBI is lying when it reports that 8% of reported rapes turned out to be false after investigation?
No. I think someone is presenting that information in a deliberately biased context, to make the percentage appear much greater than it really is. Because they are comparing all false claims of rape to only the number of rapes, reported. Which is in fact only a small percentage of rapes that actually occur. Giving the false impression that 8% of all rapes are not really rapes. When in fact it's more like 2% when we factor in all the rapes that go unreported.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
It can't. So they ALL happened. Whether they were reported or not.
Regardless, the charge is still extremely difficult and humiliating to prove. And any man who is charged will know that. So I think it's very unlikely that anyone is paying anyone off for rapes that never happened.

On the other hand, I think there are a lot of men who want to believe that is happening. And someone ought to be asking them why.
No. I think someone is presenting that information in a deliberately biased context, to make the percentage appear much greater than it really is. Because they are comparing all false claims of rape to only the number of rapes, reported. Which is in fact only a small percentage of rapes that actually occur. Giving the false impression that 8% of all rapes are not really rapes. When in fact it's more like 2% when we factor in all the rapes that go unreported.
I hope you're never on a jury judging a man accused of rape.
It sounds like the verdict would be a foregone conclusion unless
he could prove conclusively that he was in a coma in another
country at the time of the crime.
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
I hope you're never on a jury judging a man accused of rape.
It sounds like the verdict would be a foregone conclusion unless
he could prove conclusively that he was in a coma in another
country at the time of the crime.

I don't think even that will work for @PureX .
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
In the news....
New Rules Would Boost Rights of Those Accused of Campus Sexual Assaults
From the above article.....
Education Secretary Betsy DeVos is preparing to release new rules strengthening protections for students accused of sexual assault on campus and lessen the burden placed on schools, according to a person familiar with the contents.

The rules will narrow the definition of sexual assault that schools are required to adjudicate and will restrict eligible cases to those that occur on campus.


They also will raise the burden of proof used by schools when adjudicating the cases, with schools permitted to choose between two legal standards in determining an accused student’s guilt.

The Education Department plans to formally propose the rules in September.

The Obama administration had required schools use a “preponderance of the evidence” standard, meaning more likely than not, which is the standard used in most civil lawsuits. Now, schools will be allowed to revert to a higher standard, which would make it tougher to find accused students guilty.

The new rules are designed to replace the 2011 Obama-administration guidelines that were intended to bolster protections for victims of sexual assault or abuse. University administrators, men’s rights activists and some other advocates have complained that those guidelines tilted odds unfairly against the accused.

Mrs. DeVos revoked those guidelines in 2017. The rules she intends to put in place will carry the force of law without action by Congress.

The rules are being prepared as sexual assault—and schools’ responses to misconduct—remain a flashpoint on college campuses at the start of the new school year. Both the accused and those accusing their classmates, teachers or others of sexual assault have faulted institutions for shoddy investigations or biased tribunals.

Mishandling complaints can prove costly: Michigan State University agreed this spring to a $500 million payment to settle allegations by hundreds of girls and women that it didn’t appropriately investigate or respond to claims of assault by longtime sports-medicine doctor Larry Nassar. The University of Southern California is facing numerous lawsuits about its own response to allegations against a campus gynecologist.

Liz Hill, a spokeswoman for the Education Department, said the agency was in the midst of a “deliberative process” and that reports of the rule’s contents, first disclosed by the New York Times, are “premature and speculative.” She declined to comment further.

In a speech last year, Mrs. DeVos likened the campus processes used to adjudicate sexual assault to “kangaroo courts” that followed arbitrary rules and offered inadequate protections to those involved.

“Survivors, victims of a lack of due process, and campus administrators have all told me that the current approach does a disservice to everyone involved,” she said.


The new rules drew swift condemnation from victims’ rights advocates, who said they represent an effort to scale back newfound protections for women and other victims of sexual assault.

“They are making it more difficult for young people to be able to report sexual assault, and they are tipping the scales so that it will be very difficult for any student who is accused to be held accountable,” said Anurima Bhargava, who headed civil rights enforcement for schools and colleges in the Justice Department during the Obama administration.

The rules will make other changes designed to strengthen protections for accused students under the civil rights law called Title IX. They will require that students be allowed to cross-examine their accusers, a practice the Obama administration sought to discourage because questions could be “traumatic or intimidating.”

They will also allow schools to choose which parties, if any, should be permitted to appeal cases. The Obama guidelines required schools to permit both parties to appeal rulings, but critics said that practice too often forced schools to retry accused students who had been previously found innocent.

The Obama administration also discouraged the use of mediation, even if voluntary, to punish alleged perpetrators of sexual assault. The new rules will permit that practice. The administration also will explicitly allow schools to provide “supportive measures” to students who choose not to file a formal sexual- assault complaint.

Calls to overhaul the sexual-harassment complaint process have been growing for years since the Obama administration put in place the new guidelines, and critics have extended beyond conservative voices.

University administrators, in particular, said the old process put undue restraints on their ability to handle assault cases, and that the Obama administration’s stance led schools to fear that any misstep could prompt a costly federal investigation.

An analysis by The Wall Street Journal earlier this year found that, as the Education Department was preparing its new rules, its civil-rights division was opening fewer sexual harassment investigations into higher education institutions and closing them at a significantly faster clip.
 
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