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I think that's a bit of a non sequitir. Nobody's been asking about God's characteristics; they've been asking about the characteristics of the Ark, which does have a beginning and end... 300 cubits apart from each other.Eternity is a term that we finite creatures use to express the concept of something that has no end -- and/or no beginning. God has no beginning or end... He is outside the realm of time.
I hope your not implying that LOTR and its writer are not infallible.
Is this a Bible only challenge? I'm not even sure if the Bible specifies the Ark being a huge boat or whatever was available to make at the time and if it specifies whether the animals were the animals of the whole world or just livestock around the area that was flooded?
Why's that so odd? IMO, once you've taken as given the existence of a god that can do anything, everything becomes plausible.I believe that most people take the Bible much too literally, I suppose that they believe also, that the bible states this universal body was created in six literal twenty four hour days.
I'd like to issue a challenge to all Creationists. If you can build an ark to the specifications in the Bible and fill it with two of every "kind" of animal by your own hands (remember Noah had no one to help him), set it afloat with you and your family on board and keep all the animals alive for 40 days, I will convert to Creationism.
If there are other evolution accepting people willing to pledge their conversion to Creationism on completion of this challenge, please post below.
Whether or not the story is true, the proposal is a slap in God's face whether God is real or not. God obviously governed what happened (if it happened), so to ask someone to do such a thing is just as silly as it is for creationists to ask you to believe in such a thing.
Two sides to the same coin if you ask me :yes:
So he had to get a whale on the ark!!!He only had to have a representative of all the air-breathing kinds of animals.
Sure. As long as you've got an all-powerful god running around, nothing's impossible; you've got a ready-made mechanism for any crazy idea you want. And the Flood myth doesn't work unless you assume such a god from the outset, so someone who wants to believe in the story literally always has a reason in his pocket for when an Ark recreation doesn't work.Has anyone considered that this was a God project? Even if we couldn't duplicate it today, God still could have saw to it that it worked?
Sure you can believe that.Has anyone considered that this was a God project? Even if we couldn't duplicate it today, God still could have saw to it that it worked? Could God have guided the waves and water to make sure Noah and the animals were okay? I don't discount that. Knowing God like I do, I think he could have did it.
This to me has always been one of the foundational weaknesses of the whole story: yes, of course the god you believe in could have 'guided the waves and water' and supernaturally taken care of the ark etc; but in that case what was the point of the ark in the first place? If god was going to intervene and keep Noah and the animals safe whatever happened, why bother with the cockamamie boat? For this reason alone the story has 'folk myth' written all over it.Has anyone considered that this was a God project? Even if we couldn't duplicate it today, God still could have saw to it that it worked? Could God have guided the waves and water to make sure Noah and the animals were okay?
Has anyone considered that this was a God project? Even if we couldn't duplicate it today, God still could have saw to it that it worked? Could God have guided the waves and water to make sure Noah and the animals were okay? I don't discount that. Knowing God like I do, I think he could have did it.
Sure. As long as you've got an all-powerful god running around, nothing's impossible; you've got a ready-made mechanism for any crazy idea you want. And the Flood myth doesn't work unless you assume such a god from the outset, so someone who wants to believe in the story literally always has a reason in his pocket for when an Ark recreation doesn't work.
However, that's just the excuse if things fail.
What if they were to work?
Has anyone considered that this was a God project? Even if we couldn't duplicate it today, God still could have saw to it that it worked? Could God have guided the waves and water to make sure Noah and the animals were okay? I don't discount that. Knowing God like I do, I think he could have did it.
This to me has always been one of the foundational weaknesses of the whole story: yes, of course the god you believe in could have 'guided the waves and water' and supernaturally taken care of the ark etc; but in that case what was the point of the ark in the first place? If god was going to intervene and keep Noah and the animals safe whatever happened, why bother with the cockamamie boat? For this reason alone the story has 'folk myth' written all over it.
Yes, the mythical figure, God, could do anything He wanted, by magic. He could have magically manufactured enough water to flood the world, then magically evaporated it. He could have planted all the fossils where they are so as to fool us into thinking that evolution was true. He could have made a world that appears to be 4.56 billion years old, but is actually only 6000 years old. If so, science is impossible, and no religionist should appeal to it to support his personal mythology. Further, the story therefore has the same credence as any other culture's creation myth, and has the same evidence in its support. There is no such thing as creation science.
And so we join Man of Faith in marching backward, against scientific progress, back to the time when the world was a place of myth and magic. First step: trash your computer.