Courage of the White Flag

[Regiomontanus]

The Pope should have the courage to speak out against the aggressors. Putting the responsibility on the victim to resolve the situation speaks volumes about the moral qualities of the man.

The bishop of Rome, like Jesus, should be promoting deescalation. Hence, he is doing the right thing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No. Fall to tyranny? Be ruled by Putin? Surrender is not an option. You might as well kill me anyways. Who I am, the books I have, they wouldn't let me live long anyways.

The bishop of Rome, like Jesus, should be promoting deescalation. Hence, he is doing the right thing.

What he's suggesting would help to enable, empower and justify a bully. The right thing is for Putin to stop his aggression, end his invasion and leave Ukraine for Ukraine.

 

[Revoltingest]

Ukraine's fate rests largely with Republicans.
They oppose funding the fight against Russia.
This is either due to Trump opposing cooperation
with Democrats, or siding with Russia.
It certainly isn't fiscal conservatism...that's not
their way.

Full list of Republicans who voted against military aid to Ukraine

A bill providing military aid to Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan passed a procedural vote in the Senate on Monday.

www.newsweek.com

 

[metis]

The Pope has advised Ukraine to consider waving a white flag in the face of likely defeat in the war with Russia.
Pope Francis says Ukraine should have "courage of the white flag" against Russia

Do you agree?

I said from the get-go that I reluctantly believed the Ukrainian leaders should do as such because it was obvious what Putin was up to and that he would not and could not stop.

 

[Yerda]

The bishop of Rome, like Jesus, should be promoting deescalation. Hence, he is doing the right thing.

Sounds like he, and you, are missing who is attacking who.

How can Ukraine talk peace with the regime that is already stripping away parts of its territory, is displaying unprovoked aggression and is killing and kidnapping its people?

You would have to be zipped up the back.

 

[Regiomontanus]

No. Fall to tyranny? Be ruled by Putin? Surrender is not an option. You might as well kill me anyways. Who I am, the books I have, they wouldn't let me live long anyways.

What he's suggesting would help to enable, empower and justify a bully. The right thing is for Putin to stop his aggression, end his invasion and leave Ukraine for Ukraine.

I respect your opinion but do not agree with it.

 

[Rival]

There is a difference between using realpolitik debate and unreasonable idealism based on patriotism.

Sometimes it is wiser to negotiate before you just start throwing everyone into a death machine in the name of ideology.

 

[Regiomontanus]

Sounds like he, and you, are missing who is attacking who.

How can Ukraine talk peace with the regime that is already stripping away parts of its territory, is displaying unprovoked aggression and is killing and kidnapping its people?

You would have to be zipped up the back.

I think he and I, not you, understand the history and cultural heritage of that area.

I do not understand your last sentence.

 

[Yerda]

I think he and I, not you, understand the history and cultural heritage of that area.

I do not understand your last sentence.

You would have to be very gullible to think the psychos in charge of Russia will hold to any agreement, given what has happened.

I'm not a history buff, but then I don't think the history or cultural heritage have anything to do with wars of aggression.

 

[Regiomontanus]

You would have to be very gullible to think the psychos in charge of Russia will hold to any agreement, given what has happened.

I'm not a history buff, but then I don't think the history or cultural heritage have anything to do with wars of aggression.

I would argue that demonizing your enemy, instead of praying for them and trying to understand them, is counterproductive. Russia views Ukraine in a way I do not think you appreciate. Unfortunately, that is also the case with Biden, among others, IMHO.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Sometimes it is wiser to negotiate before you just start throwing everyone into a death machine in the name of ideology.

Nice framing ... a bit deceptive but clever -- assuming, of course, that one is impressed by distortion and hyperbole.

 

[Debater Slayer]

The Pope has advised Ukraine to consider waving a white flag in the face of likely defeat in the war with Russia.
Pope Francis says Ukraine should have "courage of the white flag" against Russia

Do you agree?
Is it time for Ukraine to consider terms of surrender in order to end the war.

In response to Pope Francis' comments, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba wrote Sunday on social media, "Our flag is a yellow and blue one. This is the flag by which we live, die, and prevail. We shall never raise any other flags."

This is also the assumed direction Trump would pursue if reelected.
Whereas Biden pledges continued US support for Ukraine.

Pope Francis has said many good things, but this is not one of them.

From his position of far-reaching influence, he should have directed a message to the imperialist aggressors—Putin's regime—instead of effectively placing the onus of negotiation and peace on the targets of the imperialist aggression.

 

[Yerda]

I would argue that demonizing your enemy, instead of praying for them and trying to understand them, is counterproductive. Russia views Ukraine in a way I do not think you appreciate. Unfortunately, that is also the case with Biden, among others, IMHO.

I think defending war criminals is counter productive. Take care.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm not a history buff, but then I don't think the history or cultural heritage have anything to do with wars of aggression.

What an American viewpoint, which is why Americans shouldn't be involved in Old World conflicts. Americans are very ignorant of historical context but love acting like Rambo. Culture? Heritage? What's that? I'm not trying to pick on you personally, but it's something I've noticed with this country and I'm very disappointed.

 

[Yerda]

What an American viewpoint, which is why Americans shouldn't be involved in Old World conflicts. Americans are very ignorant of historical context but love acting like Rambo. Culture? Heritage? What's that?

I'm Scottish.

Your American right wing ideology is causing you to sympathise with the war criminals.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Pope Francis has said many good things, but this is not one of them.

From his position of far-reaching influence, he should have directed a message to the imperialist aggressors—Putin's regime—instead of effectively placing the onus of negotiation and peace on the targets of the imperialist aggression.

It does reflect a much deeper issue amd history of the Vatican blaming the victims and placing the pressure on the victims to change.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm Scottish.

Your American right wing ideology is causing you to sympathise with the war criminals.

Fair enough, but your view there still strikes me as very American, so it's surprising that you're not.

Actually, I've been very antiwar since the 2000s due to the disgusting Bush admin. I vote for whoever the most antiwar candidate is. I really screwed up voting for Obama for the second time and Hillary in 2016. I am considering voting Green this time. So don't give me that nonsense. Both "right" and "left" are trash and mean nothing, really.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Remember, folks. The way to ensure peace is to give war-mongering tyrants what they want, then give them a place at the negotiation table and allow them to carve up your country as reward for unprovoked military aggression.

And the people in this thread claiming that this is okay because of "ethnic/cultural" ties in the region are just openly embracing ethno-nationalism. You don't get to decide that a sovereign state, particularly one that fought for its independence and established its own distinct democracy, should just be subsumed into another country because "eh, they're basically the same people". This is disgusting trash, and you should be embarrassed for even thinking such a position is tenable.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Surrender in this case means Russia will move on to attack the next country in line. This is what Germany did until the UK stood up to them.
Where do you think Russia will stop. The more countries. It takes, the easier it gets.
Be very afraid. Appeasement never works.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

What an American viewpoint, which is why Americans shouldn't be involved in Old World conflicts. Americans are very ignorant of historical context but love acting like Rambo. Culture? Heritage? What's that? I'm not trying to pick on you personally, but it's something I've noticed with this country and I'm very disappointed.

It is rather American to say that a country ought to defend itself rather than submit to a dictator that seeks to rule them.