Courage of the White Flag

[Nakosis]

The Pope has advised Ukraine to consider waving a white flag in the face of likely defeat in the war with Russia.
Pope Francis says Ukraine should have "courage of the white flag" against Russia

Do you agree?
Is it time for Ukraine to consider terms of surrender in order to end the war.

In response to Pope Francis' comments, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba wrote Sunday on social media, "Our flag is a yellow and blue one. This is the flag by which we live, die, and prevail. We shall never raise any other flags."

This is also the assumed direction Trump would pursue if reelected.
Whereas Biden pledges continued US support for Ukraine.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

From Politico:

The pope told the Italian-language Swiss public broadcaster RSI: “When you see that you are defeated, that things are not going well, you need to have the courage to negotiate. You are ashamed, but with how many deaths will it end? Negotiate in time, and look for some country to act as a mediator. Don’t be ashamed to negotiate before things get worse. Negotiation is never a surrender. It is the courage not to lead the country to suicide.”​

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The comments, which spread like wildfire on Russian state media and which the Vatican was eventually forced to row back on, sparked outrage in Kyiv and beyond, with officials viewing it as a call for Ukraine to surrender to Russia.​

​

Thanking Ukrainian chaplains working on the front lines, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said in a pointed late-evening statement Sunday: “This is what the church is — it is together with people, not two and a half thousand kilometers away somewhere, virtually mediating between someone who wants to live and someone who wants to destroy.” [source]​

"Negotiation is never surrender" unless it is.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

This is also the assumed direction Trump would pursue if reelected.

From Reuters:

Nationalist premier Orban, who is backing his long-time ally's bid to return to White House, met Trump in Florida on Friday.​

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"He will not give a penny into the Ukraine-Russia war and therefore the war will end," Orban told state television late on Sunday. "As it is obvious that Ukraine on its own cannot stand on its feet." [source]​

Trump will seek to serve and emulate the nationalist thugs he so greatly admires.

 

[Eddi]

In the Russian civil war the forces who opposed the Bolshevicks were known as "the whites"

As opposed to "the reds"

So a white flag doesn't necessarily mean peace or surrender

At least not historically

 

[Regiomontanus]

The Pope has advised Ukraine to consider waving a white flag in the face of likely defeat in the war with Russia.
Pope Francis says Ukraine should have "courage of the white flag" against Russia

Do you agree?
Is it time for Ukraine to consider terms of surrender in order to end the war.

In response to Pope Francis' comments, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba wrote Sunday on social media, "Our flag is a yellow and blue one. This is the flag by which we live, die, and prevail. We shall never raise any other flags."

This is also the assumed direction Trump would pursue if reelected.
Whereas Biden pledges continued US support for Ukraine.

God bless the bishop of Rome.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Of course the Pope is right here. Zelensky is delusional and throwing his country into a meat grinder, while he does dress up and does PR from safety, like it's a film shoot. We should have been negotiating peace from the start.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The Pope has advised Ukraine to consider waving a white flag in the face of likely defeat in the war with Russia.
Pope Francis says Ukraine should have "courage of the white flag" against Russia

Do you agree?
Is it time for Ukraine to consider terms of surrender in order to end the war.

In response to Pope Francis' comments, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba wrote Sunday on social media, "Our flag is a yellow and blue one. This is the flag by which we live, die, and prevail. We shall never raise any other flags."

This is also the assumed direction Trump would pursue if reelected.
Whereas Biden pledges continued US support for Ukraine.

I would say that would be up to the Ukrainian people to decide.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

In the Russian civil war the forces who opposed the Bolshevicks were known as "the whites"

As opposed to "the reds"

So a white flag doesn't necessarily mean peace or surrender

At least not historically

Good grief ...

(The White Russian flag was red, white, and blue.)

 

[Kathryn]

I would say that would be up to the Ukrainian people to decide.

I would say that too. Not us, not the Pope, not Zelenskyy. The Ukrainian people.

 

[Eddi]

Good grief ...

(The White Russian flag was red, white, and blue.)

I know it was and it still is

But at that time and place the colour white had different meanings, that was my point

The Russian civil war was a horrible event, both sides didn't exactly take prisoners so I doubt many white flags were waved in that conflict

 

[Nakosis]

I would say that would be up to the Ukrainian people to decide.

I suspect only for so long the US continues to support them.

Myself, I'm not a fan of war. Tends to be a greater risk of people dying during times of war.
In dire circumstances perhaps.
Do you think Ukraine is in dire circumstances?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I know it was and it still is

But at that time and place the colour white had different meanings, that was my point

The Russian civil war was a horrible event, both sides didn't exactly take prisoners so I doubt many white flags were waved in that conflict

Interesting. I can find nothing in the history of the white flag unique to Russia or it's civil war. Perhaps you could give us a link.

 

[Eddi]

Interesting. I can find nothing in the history of the white flag unique to Russia or it's civil war. Perhaps you could give us a link.

The anti-Bolshevicks called themselves "the whites"

In the context of the Russian civil war the colour white therefore had different connotations than it has today

White as a symbol of peace or surrender is not universal as it has had other connotations

The KKK wear white robes and they are hardly peaceful

That's all I was trying to say

 

[Yerda]

The Pope should have the courage to speak out against the aggressors. Putting the responsibility on the victim to resolve the situation speaks volumes about the moral qualities of the man.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I suspect only for so long the US continues to support them.

Myself, I'm not a fan of war. Tends to be a greater risk of people dying during times of war.
In dire circumstances perhaps.
Do you think Ukraine is in dire circumstances?

I dunno. That assessment is best left to the generals in charge over there. I would say however that Russia isn't deploying their best equipment. Only recently they had resorted to using glider bombs which are doing tremendous damage.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I would say that too. Not us, not the Pope, not Zelenskyy. The Ukrainian people.

It's their Homeland. I think they still want to fight to remove the Russians from their land.

 

[Kathryn]

It's their Homeland. I think they still want to fight to remove the Russians from their land.

Then they should fight to remove the Russians from their land.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Then they should fight to remove the Russians from their land.

As long as there is will to fight, there is hope.

 

[Kathryn]

As long as there is will to fight, there is hope.

That's true. Oh well, they should perhaps keep fighting, who knows? I mean, 30 percent of them speak Russian at home and that's a pretty big chunk. There's no telling what will happen over there.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It's their Homeland. I think they still want to fight to remove the Russians from their land.

Then they might as well give the eastern part of the country to Russia since it's mostly ethnic Russians who live there and the neo-fascists have been stoking ethnic hatred of Russians for years. Ukraine was part of Russia for centuries and the two people are very closely related. There's no sense in dragging out this war.