Cops & The Way They Are....Why?

[Revoltingest]

Note that I'll be saying some things about cops, but it'll
be generalization, & not applicable to every one of them.

Some thoughts about cops......
1) They see themselves as different...as in charge of us...as better than we are.
2) They aren't well trained to diffuse problems, & often create or exacerbate them.
3) They have an unwarranted fear of civilians.
4) They tend to protect the bad apples, allowing their fellows to get away with minor & even major crimes.
5) They have a culture of treating us abusively & violently.

Why?
1) It's their cultural environment.
1a) TV shows make police work look more violent than it really is. Many never
even fire a gun at anyone, but on TV, Detective Bosch is always having a deadly
shoot-out with armed mercenaries, "libertarian" bombers, & psychopathic serial killers.
1b) He's the selfless hero who is injured saving an unappreciative public from the
omni-present bad guys.
1c) The government is always out to get him just for doing his job....fabricating
evidence against him...persecuting him....prosecuting him. Internal Affairs is
just a bunch of rats....always going after good cops.

That's enuf wall of text for now.
I can elaborate on the other items later.

 

[George-ananda]

I'm going to post pro-cop and say all this anti-cop things are overblown.

How many of their critics are willing to do a job where you have to put yourself into the worst situations. It takes people that are a little atypical in the first place and I for one and glad that this type is out there.

Going through things that they go through will expectedly change people and I cut them some reasonable slack and am thankful they are out there doing a job I wouldn't want to do.

Now I expect many will overreact to what I say as accepting police wrong behavior. I don't accept it but I believe the overwhelming percentage of cops do a great job and sometimes amazingly so under the circumstances.

The attempt by certain parts of society to overblow and racialize unfortunate cases is a strong part of what is going to get me to likely vote Republican. Perhaps my biggest anger is against the left media's bloodthirstiness for making racial drama from these incidents. They try to inflame the public with examples of white on black violence. I think cases of white on white, black on white, black on black violence as not something the left news think they can make go viral. The end result is a ratcheting-up of racial tension in the country beyond proper perspective. America in 2020 is overwhelmingly to be praised for its racial behavior.

 

[bobhikes]

Note that I'll be saying some things about cops, but it'll
be generalization, & not applicable to every one of them.

Some thoughts about cops......
1) They see themselves as different...as in charge of us...as better than we are.
2) They aren't well trained to diffuse problems, & often create or exacerbate them.
3) They have an unwarranted fear of civilians.
4) They tend to protect the bad apples, allowing their fellows to get away with minor & even major crimes.
5) They have a culture of treating us abusively & violently.

The problem I see is appearance bias. They need to be trained in removing bias from there action.

For example Pretty Nice Young Girls and Sweet Old women get treated different than any man.

Large people and people that look shady, say a lot of tattoos get treated differently

People of color get treated differently.

All should be treated the same, people shouldn't be treated nicer or worse because of any outward apperance.

 

[Father Heathen]

Power + ego + get boots licked + get strings pulled = what we've been dealing with.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Some thoughts about cops......
1) They see themselves as different...as in charge of us...as better than we are.
2) They aren't well trained to diffuse problems, & often create or exacerbate them.
3) They have an unwarranted fear of civilians.
4) They tend to protect the bad apples, allowing their fellows to get away with minor & even major crimes.
5) They have a culture of treating us abusively & violently.

I disagree with your generalities...
1) most see themselves as called to help the public through this role in the public service...just as some feel called to serve as firefighters, or in the military, or in public health, etc.

2) Training does vary, but most larger cities have fairly extensive training and education for police, and many today require a minimum of a bachelor's degree. I know this does not hold everywhere, but when I was growing up in Central Illinois, most passed a fairly basic written, then an oral, then a physical exam. This was followed by a very brief training on the law, equipment, etc. IIRC, only a HS diploma was required. Modern training includes quite a bit on how to deal with stressful situations.

3) I don't think it's that simple: The relationship with the public stems from the role, which must be cautious...I think that breeds continual suspicion, but most of the police I've known do not have unwarranted fear of the public--they have pretty well informed fear of certain kinds of situations, and that may of course include some prejudice.

4) Agreed; it's not only police protecting their own, but the reluctance of prosecutors to seriously prosecute, and both judges and juries finding those charged guilty.

5) I think it's more complicated; they are, after all, the enforcement function of the law, and that relationship is bound to be fraught with the potential for violence and the need to defend and/or control the situation.

Too true that media portrays police as very violent. It's much easier than making a drama that doesn't include lots of action. But most police that I've met dislike the depiction by the entertainment industry.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Here's a source that is fairly recent that talks about how police see themselves and their role:

Police culture

 

[Father Heathen]

Nobody is saying that they're all bad. Most of them probably are decent and well meaning; heroic even. But to pretend that corruption, incompetence, and misconduct don't occur just because we (as in society) hero worship them is not only silly but contributes to a real, serious problem.

 

[Nakosis]

Note that I'll be saying some things about cops, but it'll
be generalization, & not applicable to every one of them.

Some thoughts about cops......
1) They see themselves as different...as in charge of us...as better than we are.
2) They aren't well trained to diffuse problems, & often create or exacerbate them.
3) They have an unwarranted fear of civilians.
4) They tend to protect the bad apples, allowing their fellows to get away with minor & even major crimes.
5) They have a culture of treating us abusively & violently.

Why?
1) It's their cultural environment.
1a) TV shows make police work look more violent than it really is. Many never
even fire a gun at anyone, but on TV, Detective Bosch is always having a deadly
shoot-out with armed mercenaries, "libertarian" bombers, & psychopathic serial killers.
1b) He's the selfless hero who is injured saving an unappreciative public from the
omni-present bad guys.
1c) The government is always out to get him just for doing his job....fabricating
evidence against him...persecuting him....prosecuting him. Internal Affairs is
just a bunch of rats....always going after good cops.

That's enuf wall of text for now.
I can elaborate on the other items later.

My son was beaten pretty badly by the cops. His mistake was asking for a warrant when they asked for entry into his apartment. He was mauled by a K-9, tased and kicked in the testicles. His arm has a permanent scar running halfway down where the dog chewed on it. They found out there was a camera on the apartment building and they quickly interrogated the owner for the video but I supposed were relieved to find out it was only a dummy camera. They had nine cops there. The ex-boy friend had told the cops that his ex-girlfriend currently living with my son was being held against her will. They charged him with domestic terrorism. Unfortunately with no video, the courts will take the word of the police, nine of them backing each other up over the individual. Had to plead guilty to resisting arrest which they plea-bargained to since he didn't have the money to fight a domestic terrorist charge which had a 5-year sentence attached.

Unfortunately, I suspect this goes on much more than gets reported. I even called a local radio station but without video, also, my son not being Black, there wasn't a lot of interest there.

 

[Revoltingest]

I disagree with your generalities...
1) most see themselves as called to help the public through this role in the public service...just as some feel called to serve as firefighters, or in the military, or in public health, etc.

I don't doubt you on this. But after starting out in the field, one will become
part of the cop culture. This can create a disconnect from the rest of us.

And I've personally met & known enuf exceptions to noble motives.

2) Training does vary, but most larger cities have fairly extensive training and education for police, and many today require a minimum of a bachelor's degree. I know this does not hold everywhere, but when I was growing up in Central Illinois, most passed a fairly basic written, then an oral, then a physical exam. This was followed by a very brief training on the law, equipment, etc. IIRC, only a HS diploma was required. Modern training includes quite a bit on how to deal with stressful situations.

Not to say this applies generally, but I'm reminded of.....
Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops
"N E W L O N D O N, Conn., Sept. 8, 2000 -- A man whose bid to become
a police officer was rejected after he scored too high on an intelligence test
has lost an appeal in his federal lawsuit against the city."

The problem isn't the majority of cops who handle the job properly.
And perhaps many of those would fail if subjected to to more
difficult situations. As I noted before, many never even fire a gun
at anyone. So a great number are never really tested.

3) I don't think it's that simple: The relationship with the public stems from the role, which must be cautious...I think that breeds continual suspicion, but most of the police I've known do not have unwarranted fear of the public--they have pretty well informed fear of certain kinds of situations, and that may of course include some prejudice.

Being a cop isn't even among the 10 most dangerous jobs in Ameristan.\
Ref....
Top 10 Most Dangerous Jobs in America 2020 - Exploring-USA
Even groundskeeping is more dangerous than police work.

5) I think it's more complicated; they are, after all, the enforcement function of the law, and that relationship is bound to be fraught with the potential for violence and the need to defend and/or control the situation.

Too true that media portrays police as very violent. It's much easier than making a drama that doesn't include lots of action. But most police that I've met dislike the depiction by the entertainment industry.

I've noticed great variation in my interactions with cops.
Some are genuinely helpful, even when I've justified their being otherwise
(traffic mishap). And some have been nasty without provocation.

 

[averageJOE]

Cops do not sacrifice anything. They do not put themselves in harms way to "protect" us. They are trained NOT TO. "Officer safety" is their main priority. Cops conditioned the public into thinking "cops have to do what ever they can to make it home at night." And I hear people repeat a version of that over and over. Cops will sacrifice US before themselves or their fellow cop. They will put us in harms way before they put themselves in harms way.

Do they have a difficult job? Absolutely. One of the most difficult in the world. Which begs the question "Knowing the difficulty of the job, why is the bar set so low for anyone to become cops?" Look around at cops today, full of a bunch of idiots. Critical thinking is irrelevant, just someone who can unleash brute force is required. I know this because as an MP (military police) for 11 years I worked along side full time cops regularly. Today, the job is attracting the lowest common denominator.

Why does it take 6+ years of schooling to become a lawyer and practice law, but only 6 months of training to be given a badge, a gun, and qualified immunity to go out and "enforce" law?

 

[Revoltingest]

My son was beaten pretty badly by the cops. His mistake was asking for a warrant when they asked for entry into his apartment. He was mauled by a K-9, tased and kicked in the testicles. His arm has a permanent scar running halfway down where the dog chewed on it. They found out there was a camera on the apartment building and they quickly interrogated the owner for the video but I supposed were relieved to find out it was only a dummy camera. They had nine cops there. The ex-boy friend had told the cops that his ex-girlfriend currently living with my son was being held against her will. They charged him with domestic terrorism. Unfortunately with no video, the courts will take the word of the police, nine of them backing each other up over the individual. Had to plead guilty to resisting arrest which they plea-bargained to since he didn't have the money to fight a domestic terrorist charge which had a 5-year sentence attached.

Unfortunately, I suspect this goes on much more than gets reported. I even called a local radio station but without video, also, my son not being Black, there wasn't a lot of interest there.

Bummer.
I've heard such stories from a cop who did building maintenance for\
me on occasion. He drove drunk, & got away with it....he beat up his
girlfriend....he threatened co-workers....& he finally stole from me.
He was a violent one, but he thought his co-workers up in Flint MI were
even worse. They'd do as they please, dispensing summary justice.
As you say, in court it's always their good word against the guilty perp.

 

[Brickjectivity]

1) They see themselves as different...as in charge of us...as better than we are.

Most people see themselves as better than others. Criminals often do, too.

2) They aren't well trained to diffuse problems, & often create or exacerbate them.

If you don't treat workers well they won't treat customers well. Police forces long ago were street sweepers and city janitors. Centuries later they have become somewhat militarized. If you take the city servants and force them to be responsible whenever there is a burglary then you get someone who is not paid enough. I think we should expect an endemic problem, and (no surprise) I think we have got one.

3) They have an unwarranted fear of civilians.

Yes, they do. Constant stress changes a person's psychology. That supports my opinion that there is an endemic problem.

4) They tend to protect the bad apples, allowing their fellows to get away with minor & even major crimes.

I don't know anything about this.

5) They have a culture of treating us abusively & violently.

Maybe they become jaded when dealing with lots of liars all the time. Nobody is a better liar than a criminal who lies to themselves. Some people can lie very well, so a police officer has to suppress their own reactions to some seriously sad sob stories. They have to drag people away who are crying, pleading innocence, demanding justice etc. They have to learn to follow orders and ignore their feelings.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

But after starting out in the field, one will become
part of the cop culture. This can create a disconnect from the rest of us.

The same can be said of journalists and engineers and doctors and lawyers and any other field. Few fields have as potentially large direct impact on members of the public in general, but it's also true that many in the public may have only one or two interactions with police in their lifetime...but it's also true that some will have many, many interactions, often through no fault of their own...

Year in and year out, surveys show that while 75 to 85 percent of adults have trust and respect for firefighters, the comparable number for police is about 50 percent. For many Americans, a visit with the police is anything but positive.

 

[Revoltingest]

Most people see themselves as better than others. Criminals often do, too.

It's particularly dangerous when cops see themselves as better, & us as the threat.

If you don't treat workers well they won't treat customers well. Police forces long ago were street sweepers and city janitors. Centuries later they have become somewhat militarized. If you take the city servants and force them to be responsible whenever there is a burglary then you get someone who is not paid enough. I think we should expect an endemic problem, and (no surprise) I think we have got one.

We could be better off with fewer cops, but better qualified & trained ones.

k
Yes, they do. Constant stress changes a person's psychology. That supports my opinion that there is an endemic problem.

I'll wager that it's inadequately addressed.

Maybe they become jaded when dealing with lots of liars all the time. Nobody is a better liar than a criminal who lies to themselves. Some people can lie very well, so a police officer has to suppress their own reactions to some seriously sad sob stories. They have to drag people away who are crying, pleading innocence, demanding justice etc. They have to learn to follow orders and ignore their feelings.

While the job can be difficult, improvements must be made.
The one thing clear to all is that the status quo is unacceptable.

 

[Nakosis]

Bummer.
I've heard such stories from a cop who did building maintenance for\
me on occasion. He drove drunk, & got away with it....he beat up his
girlfriend....he threatened co-workers....& he finally stole from me.
He was a violent one, but he thought his co-workers up in Flint MI were
even worse. They'd do as they please, dispensing summary justice.
As you say, in court it's always their good word against the guilty perp.

I've met a good cop too, just one...

I suppose we know there is a problem, that why they are requiring body cameras. I'm sure racism is a component but it is really beyond that.

 

[Revoltingest]

The same can be said of journalists and engineers and doctors and lawyers and any other field.

I don't see those fields disconnecting people from society to the extent police work does.
Lawyers are the worst of the bunch though. The law is so often about what they can
legally get away with. So I avoid both lawyers & cops as much as possible.

Few fields have as potentially large direct impact on members of the public in general, but it's also true that many in the public may have only one or two interactions with police in their lifetime...but it's also true that some will have many, many interactions, often through no fault of their own...

Year in and year out, surveys show that while 75 to 85 percent of adults have trust and respect for firefighters, the comparable number for police is about 50 percent. For many Americans, a visit with the police is anything but positive.

 

[Revoltingest]

I've met a good cop too, just one...

I suppose we know there is a problem, that why they are requiring body cameras. I'm sure racism is a component but it is really beyond that.

I think sexism is an even bigger problem.

Btw, a friend's son was sexually assaulted by a cop.
Guess how that went? Nowhere.

 

[averageJOE]

Maybe they become jaded when dealing with lots of liars all the time. Nobody is a better liar than a criminal who lies to themselves. Some people can lie very well, so a police officer has to suppress their own reactions to some seriously sad sob stories.

Cops are professional liars. The Supreme Court ruled (frazier vs cupp 1969) that police are allowed to lie to us. They are trained to do this; in interrogation rooms and on the street. They do it so much they don't know how not to lie.

 

[Revoltingest]

Cops are professional liars. The Supreme Court ruled (frazier vs cupp 1969) that police are allowed to lie to us. They are trained to do this; in interrogation rooms and on the street. They do it so much they don't know how not to lie.

It also becomes lying when testifying.

 

[sun rise]

My 60's self loved the phrase "off the pig". Today? Life has altered my view. This is for multiple reasons.

A gay man I knew got a job with the SF Police. Now San Francisco is a different place, we'll all agree, but he was trained to never let anyone get behind him. Since he had a gun, that made sense. And he did not become a 'pig' as a result of being a cop.

One night our doorbell rang and I went to the door opened it and looked around. Nothing until a cop stood up and we had a nice chat about how our phone line was misbehaving in a way that caused concern that there was an attempt to signal 911. They behaved with proper respect and decorum.

I've seen any number of really good cops who go out of their way for people. Here's some stories: Police Archives - Good News Network

I once served on a jury for a drunk driving stop, believe it or not. Two cops got up and testified the driver was drunk. There was no real defense. Outside of one person who did not understand the meaning of the word 'reason' in reasonable doubt, all of us believed the cops although I was not sure about one of them.

But it's also true that there are bad cops and bad departments aided and abetted by bad prosecutors.

And it's also true that they have the same attitude toward one another that soldiers on the battlefield have -protect one's buddies. And there is a confrontational and violence-prone culture in too many departments.

But where I agree is that many are not well trained especially when it comes to defusing and deescalating situations. That training works and we should hold our local governments responsible to make sure that training is offered and mandatory.

I think sexism is an even bigger problem.

When we have judges to demand an answer to "did you cross your legs" to a rape victim, the problem extends beyond cops and into the entire criminal justice system.

From what I've read about some of the current regime's judicial appointments, the problem is getting worse.