Cops Don't Intervene In An Assault

[George-ananda]

So people shouldn't protest police brutality?

You can got too far with that and lose sight of the big picture which is overwhelmingly good police officers doing nasty jobs. BLM has created too negative an attitude!

 

[Nakosis]

As far as I can tell, repercussions for police violence are neglibible, and even US police officers who are being fired don't seem to have many problems being hired by police departments in different areas.

As an example, George Floyd's murderer had at least four records of excessive violence under his belt before the hammer finally dropped on him (but only after a round of very public protests).

That was before. Before police were pretty well protected by unions. The mayors were more afraid of the police unions. Now I suspect they may be more afraid of the media.

 

[Tambourine]

You can got too far with that and lose sight of the big picture which is overwhelmingly good police officers doing nasty jobs. BLM has created too negative an attitude!

We just established that if people protest too much, then cops will stop doing their job.

Therefore the safest course of action is to never protest police brutality. Do you disagree?

 

[Tambourine]

That was before. Before police were pretty well protected by unions. The mayors were more afraid of the police unions. Now I suspect they may be more afraid of the media.

What specific case has changed your assessment?

 

[Nakosis]

So people shouldn't protest police brutality?

Protest the brutality, not the police. You go after all cops, more likely they will circle the wagons.

 

[George-ananda]

We just established that if people protest too much, then cops will stop doing their job.

Therefore the safest course of action is to never protest police brutality. Do you disagree?

You can protest individual cases fine, but an overall negative attitude to police is unwarranted and harmful.

 

[Tambourine]

Protest the brutality, not the police. You go after all cops, more likely they will circle the wagons.

You can protest individual cases fine, but an overall negative attitude to police is unwarranted and harmful.

So what do you suggest people do?

How can they protest "brutality, but not the police"?

How can you tell the difference between a protest against individual cases, and a protest with a "negative attitude to police"?

Can you point to any specific examples?

 

[Nakosis]

What specific case has changed your assessment?

I suspect George Floyd changed everyone's assessment. However, I've always thought the best approach is to go after the individual committing the crime.

 

[Tambourine]

I suspect George Floyd changed everyone's assessment. However, I've always thought the best approach is to go after the individual committing the crime.

But George Floyd's murderer hasn't been convicted, nor do we know how his job prospects are going to look like. Why do you assume a sudden change in how police departments conduct their hirings?

 

[Tambourine]

Except that this is becoming a trend.
Trends cannot be fixed by replacing identified slackers.

Also, if bystanders were OK with the beatdown, it would
seem that intervening would've roused their ire too.
I speculate that BLM is creating an anti-cop atmosphere
that's harming their own interests. Given the rampant
black on black violence, this creates a strong disincentive
for cops to not engage. We need a cultural shift towards
better attitudes in both cops & black folk.

Btw, this thread is the type that could get the OP in trouble.
If I get banned, say a few words in my defense.
(Yes, I'm asking you to lie.)

What measures do you believe would bring about better attitudes in cops?

 

[Revoltingest]

Do you think that US police officers are now refusing to do their job in retaliation to BLM protests?

Should people stop protesting police brutality?

I think it's not about retaliation.
Just playing it safe.

 

[Revoltingest]

What measures do you believe would bring about better attitudes in cops?

First, it would be a long slow process....
1) Entertainment media could stop portraying policing as
such a dangerous job with many gun battles.
2) Cops would have to establish a better record
with the public.
3) Government should deal more effectively with
cop malfeasance & misfeasance.
4) More professionalism for cops, eg, higher pay,
higher requirements, more comprehensive training.
5) Adding professions to complement policing functions,
eg, conflict resolution specialists, social workers.

 

[Nakosis]

But George Floyd's murderer hasn't been convicted, nor do we know how his job prospects are going to look like. Why do you assume a sudden change in how police departments conduct their hirings?

Human nature

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Except that this is becoming a trend.
Trends cannot be fixed by replacing identified slackers.

Also, if bystanders were OK with the beatdown, it would
seem that intervening would've roused their ire too.
I speculate that BLM is creating an anti-cop atmosphere
that's harming their own interests. Given the rampant
black on black violence, this creates a strong disincentive
for cops to not engage. We need a cultural shift towards
better attitudes in both cops & black folk.

Btw, this thread is the type that could get the OP in trouble.
If I get banned, say a few words in my defense.
(Yes, I'm asking you to lie.)

When BLM shut down the Pride Parade in Toronto a few years ago, in order to have police barred from participation (among other demands), I was incensed. And when the Pride Committee here gave in to those demands, I vowed that I would not attend another Pride event. And I've been faithful to that vow, although I was among those who started the very first of Toronto's Pride celebrations, along with friends who became the leaders of our community (I was not a leader, just a friend).

I remember when we had it bad at the hands of police -- but we worked that through, and our relationships were improving continually. Toronto even has many LGBT officers on the force now. BLM wants those relationships broken down again. And I am vehemently opposed to that. I support our police, though holding bad officers to account, as I do bad actors in any other role.

BLM does not see what the original players in the Pride movement saw -- that we best get rid of enemies by making them friends. They appear to want everything to be adversarial, and I do not think that's a healthy way forward.

So, your Revoltitude, I'll support you're not being barred.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

We just established that if people protest too much, then cops will stop doing their job.

Therefore the safest course of action is to never protest police brutality. Do you disagree?

I think that's baiting, and not particularly helpful, to be honest.

 

[George-ananda]

So what do you suggest people do?

How can they protest "brutality, but not the police"?

How can you tell the difference between a protest against individual cases, and a protest with a "negative attitude to police"?

Can you point to any specific examples?

Maybe add loud praise for the overwhelming majority of officers that do a great job in nasty situations.

 

[columbus]

I think that's baiting, and not particularly helpful, to be honest.

There's a technical term for that. The fallacy of the excluded middle. BLM supporters are good at that.
Tom

 

[columbus]

I think it's not about retaliation.
Just playing it safe.

Exactly.
It's not retaliation, it's a rational response to the current political climate.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

So, your Revoltitude, I'll support you're not being barred.

The thread's been tamer than I expected...so far.

 

[Stevicus]

I can understand their not intervening when an all black group of
girls beats up a young girl. No one is stabbing or shooting her.
Had they intervened, they'd possibly have harmed her attackers
more than she was harmed, risking escalation of the situation.
Then there's the possibility of harm, death, protests, sanctions, &
even prosecution for stopping a juvenile black on black beatdown.

Still, doesn't the victim deserve protection in one of those rare
cases where cops can end & even prevent an assault? Have
we reached the point where many cops are so afraid of doing
their job that they'll often stand down?

https://nypost.com/2020/08/10/nypd-...r-as-11-year-old-is-beaten-in-broad-daylight/
Excerpted....
NYPD cops had a front-row seat to a five-on-one brawl — but let the violence play out rather than doing their jobs to break it up, The Post has learned.

An 11-year-old girl was slapped, punched, kicked and even shocked with a stun gun by a group of five other girls after a basketball game around 7 p.m. Sunday on East 125th Street near Madison Avenue in Harlem.

During the roughly 4-minute beatdown, cops sat idly in nearby cruisers — but they didn’t get out until the girl was bloody and bruised, a Post photographer observed.

At least 20 police cars were nearby on the street — with at least one a little more than a car-length away, photos show.

Police sources told The Post the young girl was treated at Mount Sinai Hospital after being cut, bruised and shocked in the stomach with the stun gun. The girl told cops she didn’t know her attackers but knew two of their handles on social media, sources said.

The NYPD did not immediately respond for comment. It was not known if any arrests were made in connection with the fight.

The hands-off approach comes as the police unions challenge a portion of NYC’s chokehold bill that makes it a misdemeanor crime to use any technique during an arrest that could limit breathing.

Top NYPD officials have also spoken out against the local reform, calling it dangerous, but have denied a slowdown — despite video leaking out from a weekly CompStat meeting capturing precinct leaders telling Chief of Department Terence Monahan that cops were “afraid” of facing charges over the law.

Over the last month, arrests have plummeted, with cops making nearly 60 percent fewer collars, according to NYPD statistics released Monday.

Cops are also pulling over fewer drivers, issuing a quarter of the normal speeding tickets — with the city’s speed cameras violation count holding steady.

The article doesn't really give enough information to be able to say what happened. Why were 5 girls (who appeared to be older than 11) beating up on an 11-year-old girl? What in heck happened? Was the victim black as well? The article said that there was an unruly crowd which was reacting to the presence of the cops, but it's not clear if that's why the cops were holding back or not.