Consensus DENIED!

[tomspug]

DailyTech - Myth of Consensus Explodes: APS Opens Global Warming Debate

There is now no doubt that there most certainly is NOT a consensus on global warming (and that there never has been).

The American Physical Society, an organization representing nearly 50,000 physicists, has reversed its stance on climate change and is now proclaiming that many of its members disbelieve in human-induced global warming. The APS is also sponsoring public debate on the validity of global warming science. The leadership of the society had previously called the evidence for global warming "incontrovertible."
In a posting to the APS forum, editor Jeffrey Marque explains,"There is a considerable presence within the scientific community of people who do not agree with the IPCC conclusion that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are very probably likely to be primarily responsible for global warming that has occurred since the Industrial Revolution."

 

[Jeremy Mason]

I'm a little concerned. I'm not sure what these findings will have on the need to decrease pollution. Does anyone feel the same way?

 

[kai]

I am a little concerned thee findings will nor reduce the amount of "green" taxation going on in my country

 

[Jeremy Mason]

I am a little concerned thee findings will nor reduce the amount of "green" taxation going on in my country

How are you taxed, I mean, does it happen at the pump?

 

[kai]

How are you taxed, I mean, does it happen at the pump?

it is gradually being ingrained into all our society from taxes on fuel ,to road fund licences , to construction methods , to what we can put in our trash cans , some local authorities even put cameras into trash cans to make sure we are recycling ,and people have been fined for putting the wrong rubbish in their bins.

BBC NEWS | UK | Green taxes 'would hit poor most'

BBC NEWS | Politics | Brown unveils 'green' tax plans


Billions of pounds are being raised in green taxes with little or no reward for environmentally-friendly consumers, according to two new studies.
Each British family is paying £400 more in green taxes than it would cost to cover its carbon footprint, according to the TaxPayers' Alliance.

Treasury 'pockets extra £10bn' from green taxes | Mail Online

 

[Jeremy Mason]

it is gradually being ingrained into all our society from taxes on fuel ,to road fund licences , to construction methods , to what we can put in our trash cans , some local authorities even put cameras into trash cans to make sure we are recycling ,and people have been fined for putting the wrong rubbish in their bins.

BBC NEWS | UK | Green taxes 'would hit poor most'

BBC NEWS | Politics | Brown unveils 'green' tax plans


Billions of pounds are being raised in green taxes with little or no reward for environmentally-friendly consumers, according to two new studies.
Each British family is paying £400 more in green taxes than it would cost to cover its carbon footprint, according to the TaxPayers' Alliance.

Treasury 'pockets extra £10bn' from green taxes | Mail Online

Wow, that seems excessive. If I knew there was a camera in my trash, I would have some fun.

 

[kai]

I kid you not!



The tiny covert camera, which has cost Weymouth and Portland Council, Dorset, up to £10,000, will also help catch householders who put their rubbish out too early or too late

Bin bag 'spy camera' to enforce refuse rules - Telegraph

 

[doppelganger]

If anyone's interested, Penn & Teller's next "BS!" episode on Showtime is an attack on global warming theory.

 

[Ringer]

If anyone's interested, Penn & Teller's next "BS!" episode on Showtime is an attack on global warming theory.

I like that show for more reasons than educational purposes (I hope you know what I'm talking about :drool. I only wished I still had the Showtime package.

From what I can tell, global warming has been treated akin to Pascal's Wager. We aren't sure if our actions are having a significant impact on global warming but lets be as "green" as possible so that even if we aren't a major contributor, at least we'll ensure it stays that way. While not a bad idea, when we start taxing people even more for financing our transition into eco-friendly methods/activities, I feel we are doing more harm than good as the costs get passed on to us. In particular, this affects our lower and middle class in this country.

 

[sandandfoam]

I read an article in a humanist magazine recently which opined that the Green movement fills a psychological need previously satisfied by religion. I realise that this has nothing to do with the merit or otherwise of green issues. But I thought it was interesting.

 

[Panda]

Some physicists disagree with global warming. How many of them are environmental experts? If they are not experts their opinion is no more valuable than anyone else's, even if they are scientists.

 

[blackout]

Some physicists disagree with global warming. How many of them are environmental experts? If they are not experts their opinion is no more valuable than anyone else's, even if they are scientists.

Which is why I have absolutely no opinion what-so-ever regarding global waming. (warming.lol)
(or many many other topics as well)

EDIT: If I cannot personally evidence a thing for myslef
it remains only an idea (for me).
Someone else's contention/knowledge,
that I cannot "evidence" for my self...
remains just that. Someone else's contention/knowledge.

 

[sandandfoam]

Which is why I have absolutely no opinion what-so-ever about global waming.

Would you have an opinion if it were used as an excuse to impose lots of extra tax?

 

[blackout]

Would you have an opinion if it were used as an excuse to impose lots of extra tax?

Well I DO have an opinion on taxes.

 

[tomspug]

If anyone's interested, Penn & Teller's next "BS!" episode on Showtime is an attack on global warming theory.

Yummy! Makes me wish I had Showtime...

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Would you have an opinion if it were used as an excuse to impose lots of extra tax?

I agree that taxation without reason is counter productive, never-the-less, we will benefit from responsible emission practices. I used this saying in another thread, and still don't know who said it, but "We have not inherited this world form our forefathers, we're only borrowing it from our children." :yes:

 

[Dunemeister]

Almost anything can be made to function as a religion if it "elevates" you somehow.

 

[Yerda]

Note that:

Updated 7/17/2008

After publication of this story, the APS responded with a statement that its Physics and Society Forum is merely one unit within the APS, and its views do not reflect those of the Society at large.

Or in other words (those of the APS):

"Emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are changing the atmosphere in ways that affect the Earth's climate. Greenhouse gases include carbon dioxide as well as methane, nitrous oxide and other gases. They are emitted from fossil fuel combustion and a range of industrial and agricultural processes.

"The evidence is incontrovertible: Global warming is occurring. If no mitigating actions are taken, significant disruptions in the Earth’s physical and ecological systems, social systems, security and human health are likely to occur. We must reduce emissions of greenhouse gases beginning now."

I see that they haven't corrected the title of the article yet....

 

[Nessa]

DailyTech - Myth of Consensus Explodes: APS Opens Global Warming Debate

There is now no doubt that there most certainly is NOT a consensus on global warming (and that there never has been).

This article's title is bit disingenous. Here are some quotes from the article :

The American Physical Society, an organization representing nearly 50,000 physicists, has reversed its stance on climate change and is now proclaiming that many of its members disbelieve in human-induced global warming

,"There is a considerable presence within the scientific community of people who do not agree with the IPCC conclusion that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are very probably likely to be primarily responsible for global warming that has occurred since the Industrial Revolution."

A low sensitivity implies additional atmospheric CO2 will have little effect on global climate

Global warming and the effect that man may have had on it are two seperate issues. Not to mention the correction at the bottom of the article.

After publication of this story, the APS responded with a statement that its Physics and Society Forum is merely one unit within the APS, and its views do not reflect those of the Society at large.

 

[tomspug]

The point of the article is that there isn't a consensus. That's what this post is about. I wasn't saying that the entire society suddenly all changed their minds. It means that they are choosing to publicly acknowledge that a debate EXISTS (as opposed to their previous public image).