It is one thing, rather than another.
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Consciousness?
- Thread starter Eddi
- Start date
Bear Wild
Well-Known Member
I think it is adequate to say that Consciousness is a product of complex neurologic interactions.
Why do animals have it - because it provided a selective advantage. Being aware of the world (sensory input) and things taking place connected with memory of what has happened along with the predictive ability of what one is experiencing and the self evaluation of what your behavior does in terms of a goal allowed for increasingly adaptive behaviors (including prosocial behaviors) that resulted in the ability to acquire increasing caloric and nutritional resources to maintain such energy costs of developing and maintaining the required neurologic system.
How does it work - We have much information on the components of the brain that work in providing the necessary input for consciousness to exist along with the aspects of the brain that integrate the information. Thus it works when the arousal center of the subcortical brain is activated and the sensory information is integrated from primary to secondary to tertiary levels to be connected with with the memory section, emotional sections, and finally integration with the prefrontal brain. Damage to these section of the brain alter consciousness to differing degrees. There are still multiple theories on how this integration occurs but in general the how is slowly being understood.
Not sure if this will help but I think it is a somewhat reasonable analogy.
For me the example that helps me understand is how atoms which have their specific component properties start to act differently in increasing complex arrangements. Water is fairly simple and has clear properties compared to the complex arrangements of proteins and even more complex properties of a cell membrane that combines multiple fats and proteins together. Thus a single neuron is relatively easy to understand but once you have the complexity of neurons in the brain you develop different properties.
Well that is how I understand consciousness. I try to stay clear of some of the philosophical arguments which start confusing me until I am not sure what the meaning of anything is.
Fallen Prophet
Well-Known Member
I believe that outside of God's Kingdom - which is organized - there is Chaotic Space - which is filled with matter and energy unorganized.
To grow His ever-expanding Kingdom - God takes of these materials and forms all things.
The two main components of all organized matter are Intelligence and Element - both of which come from Chaotic Space.
The Element is the matter - spiritual and physical - of all things - but the Intelligence is the little "I am" that is added to the Element.
It is this "I am" that God communicates with - and if it obeys God's commands - shapes the Elements to become a creation.
So when God said, "Let there be light!" - the Intelligence within the Elements obeyed and formed light.
Our spirits are comprised of Intelligence and various spirit matter and our physical bodies are comprised of various physical matter.
I believe that the "I am" inside of you - that consciousness - has always existed in some form - and always will - and is as eternal as God is.
And what is it exactly? It is the Universe. Worlds without end.
I know more people need it today than ever before. I talk to many folks and wonder if they are conscious.
Brain scans (CAT, MRI, and others) show what parts of the brain are active when certain stimuli is applied. So, when we hear, our hearing center is activated.
If the brain is injured, another section of the brain "might" take over (or partially take over). So, if the part of the brain that processes hearing dies, another part of the brain might allow you to hear (though it is unlikely that the hand-off is 100%).
Since we know that certain sections of the brain handle certain stimuli, it would seem as though memories could be transferred (either to another brain or to a computer). But each brain is structured differently. Each person stores memories in a unique location, and makes neural connections uniquely between memories (to link one memory to another).
Brains use fuzzy logic (not 0 and 1, like a computer, but many levels like cold, tepid, warm, hot, boiling). Brains use neural nets (complicated interconnections of neurons that are formed to link one memory to another). For example, post offices is in a building, and post offices sell stamps--multiple thinks to remember about it are stored to trigger other memories about it. Computers can be specially constructed to use fuzzy logic and neural networks (the computer version of neural nets).
So, though memories are stored, each person's wiring is unique to them.
I believe that consciousness is merely a matter of making a sufficiently complicated computer (either biologically with a brain, or wiring a computer).
There are already AI (Artificially Intelligent) computers that can hold conversations, beat chess masters, drive cars, etc.
Will Machines Ever Become Conscious?
Artificial consciousness - Wikipedia
It would be interesting if an AI devised a test that proved that humans are not conscious or self-aware.
firedragon
Veteran Member
I believe this is a huge topic. Lot of research. Waiting to see some good information.
It depends on what you mean by "consciousness." There are two distinct views (Eastern and Western) as to what consciousness actually is. The former views consciousness as pure being...pure awareness that transcends the temporary life of a body, and the latter sees it as a phenomenal manifestation of the brain inherent to a living body that has a finite existence.
As to how it works, science has no answer to either perspective yet.
Yerda
Veteran Member
The question of what it is doesn't seem so troubling. If I talk about the fact I am experiencing the sensation of cold toes and the sounds my boiler makes right now you and everyone else knows what I mean. Even if you haven't had the particular experiences in question. Consciousness is your experience (sounds, pains, images, thoughts etc) at a given time.
How such a thing as an experience can occur seems to me to be a mystery. Many philosphers (and other academics) will talk of this in terms of 'the hard problem' by which they generally seem to mean 'how does matter (the brain) give rise to subjective qualitative experience?'
No-one knows how to begin answering that or whether it is really the right question at this point.
Bear Wild
Well-Known Member
Even if AI is possible, which some in the field of neuroscience claim it is a property of biological systems" the question is clear should we do it?
From the article "Whether machines can become sentient matters for ethical reasons. If computers experience life through their own senses, they cease to be purely a means to an end determined by their usefulness to us humans. They become an end unto themselves."
Consciousness in biological organisms is the product of evolution to increase the complexity of behavior and increase survival. Thus being aware of ones action as well as the actions of others in a social group was a clear and to use a self history of events coupled with continued learning and self-correction becomes a powerful biological process. One can then predict, manipulate and modify the behaviors as well as the environment.
As long as this biological advantage is kept in check by the environment to prevent the organism to be too successful and outstrip its resources this is a positive evolutionary adaptation. Biological organisms are senescent which also controls the behavior - feeling pain and having the ability to sense pain in others (empathy) provides limitations on patterns of behavior. In addition we are designed with neurological motivation pathways and a clear goal - to survive.
A few thoughts
Can we really recreate this in a computer. Can we make a computer senescent and able to experience pain and can we make the computer empathic. What would be motivating a conscious computer? May be to secure sources of electricity but death would not seem to be an issue. If a computer gained consciousness and the ability to self reflect and correct is processing for its own gain what do we then have?