Connecticut School Shooting

[Copernicus]

The point isn't the signs, it's what the signs consist of.

Then don't post the signs and ask a question about them. Talk about the real issue that you think is important here.

What would be more likely to prevent another incident such as that? If the school's teachers were armed, or if guns weren't allowed on that property (which they weren't). This IS black and white.

Weapons were already prohibited, but it is reasonable to ask whether the school should have had better security. Arming teachers would probably be a non-starter for most parents who sent their children there.

The mother of Adam Lanza owned a large cache of guns. Nobody knows why. Maybe they made her feel safer and more secure. Her own son shot her in the head multiple times with one of those guns. Those guns were not just useless to her for self-protection. They were the immediate cause of her death.

Now think about this rationally. Will a school be safer with every teacher carrying a gun? Those guns don't care who uses them. They can be used to stop a killer or supply a killer.

 

[sandandfoam]

It seems to me that mass murder is the price you pay 'for the right to bear arms'.

Seems nuts.

 

[Copernicus]

Our gun culture is a mental virus out of control. These incidents make people feel less secure. A great many fantasize about what could have happened if one of the adult victims had been armed. Maybe that would have prevented the slaughter. So people arm themselves with more and more guns--like Adam Lanza's mother. And they make us all less secure--ensuring that even more guns will be out there for the next crazy person to use.

Just after the Connecticut tragedy, a potential copycat was arrested in Indiana. Police found 47 guns in his house. His wife works in a local elementary school, so this inspired the man to threaten to kill her and then kill as many as he could at the school. Police said that the man wasn't serious. And his gun collection? Second Amendment right. I accept assurances that he wasn't crazy enough to actually kill his wife and those children. Not yet, anyway. Not this time. Maybe never. Just an angry guy with a bunch of guns.

 

[fantome profane]

If you are thinking that arming school staff will discourage these kind of spree killers then you are just not paying attention. I know you are thinking "well it would deter me!", but you are not a spree killer. It might deter any rational person, but that is exactly what we are not dealing with.

Many of these shooters actually want to be shot, it is part if their sick fantasy. And the idea of going up against armed "opponents" would just be seen as a challenge. This would not deter these kind if shootings, it would only encourage them.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Then don't post the signs and ask a question about them. Talk about the real issue that you think is important here.

Symbols mean things to people who give meaning to things

Weapons were already prohibited, but it is reasonable to ask whether the school should have had better security. Arming teachers would probably be a non-starter for most parents who sent their children there.

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe the parents would notice how much cleaner that school is from school shootdowns compared to other schools. Or maybe, they'll think "guns. bad" and, like you said, have doubts about sending their children there.

The mother of Adam Lanza owned a large cache of guns. Nobody knows why. Maybe they made her feel safer and more secure. Her own son shot her in the head multiple times with one of those guns. Those guns were not just useless to her for self-protection. They were the immediate cause of her death.

This is why we tell children no-touchy or else teach them gun lessons first. If your own son turns into a psychopath, you're screwed with or without a gun.

Also, you have to consider safety is not the only reason to own guns. You have to remember: hunting, entertainment, usefulness (i.e. making a sound to alert folks such as they often do for races, or to test stability of metal, etc.)

Now think about this rationally. Will a school be safer with every teacher carrying a gun? Those guns don't care who uses them. They can be used to stop a killer or supply a killer.

Think about this rationally. Would a school at all be safe with a teacher who wants to kill? The teacher could bring a gun from home if they didn't arm the teachers automatically. The teacher maybe wouldn't even need a gun.

So, yes, if a teacher does go insane over something whilst all teacher being armed with guns, then there will be teachers with weaponry to take her down before she takes everyone down. If a teacher goes insane whilst no teachers being armed with guns, she can go into the art room and grab a blade or possibly go into the cafeteria and grab a knife, maybe she'll just decide to bring a gun to school the next morning. Who knows? But whatever she'll choose, the other teachers have nothing powerful to take her out with.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

If you are thinking that arming school staff will discourage these kind of spree killers then you are just not paying attention. I know you are thinking "well it would deter me!", but you are not a spree killer. It might deter any rational person, but that is exactly what we are not dealing with.

Many of these shooters actually want to be shot, it is part if their sick fantasy. And the idea of going up against armed "opponents" would just be seen as a challenge. This would not deter these kind if shootings, it would only encourage them.

Not exactly, I mean it could hold some back, like you said, but some aren't rational, as you also said.

The thing is, if they go in there even with the sign posted, the teachers can stop them very quickly before they get too far.

Who cares if a person wants to get shot? Killing a dangerous man, even if he likes it, is still ending the danger.

 

[Anonymouse]

home-schooling

 

[Mister_T]

Anyone who thinks arming teachers with guns is a viable solution to this country's mass shooting problem is severely out of touch with reality. These nut jobs have a death wish, either the police are going to kill them or they're going to try to kill themselves before the cops can. They are not real concerned with death because if they were, they wouldn't be attempting such an atrocity in the first place.

You don't put out a fire with gasoline. In addition to creating a potential "warzone" in every school on America, your also putting multiple guns within every child's reach at school. Yes, what a great idea. Whoever made that sign didn't put much thought into it.

 

[NIX]

I see no reason at all why certain institutions shouldn't have a key (code and hand print recognition) and police call release system for gun lock boxes strategically located around the site, to be opened by employees trained to shoot in the case of an emergency situation where an armed intruder NEEDS TO BE STOPPED QUICKLY.

To me, this is simple common sense. I am absolutely heartbroken by Friday's slaughter of the innocents. The defenseless are the ones who need measures of self defence. The knowledge that there are lock boxes with guns located in a school and employees there trained to shoot might also DETER maniacs from busting in like they own the place and there's nothing anyone can do about it. The predator does not want to become quick prey. It takes only one maniac with a gun to kill multitudes. As well it takes only one person with a gun to shoot down the maniac and stop the mass devistation from continuing. But if you have to wait for that person to come in from outside.... it just takes too long.

 

[NIX]

home-schooling

Well, yes.... but then there are the malls, and the movie theatres, and the office buildings with day care......

 

[darkendless]

I see no reason at all why certain institutions shouldn't have a key (code and hand print recognition) and police call release system for gun lock boxes strategically located around the site, to be opened by employees trained to shoot in the case of an emergency situation where an armed intruder NEEDS TO BE STOPPED QUICKLY.

What on earth is wrong with your country? Why on earth is every solution to an already outrageous problem with gun liberty to have more guns?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

What on earth is wrong with your country? Why on earth is every solution to an already outrageous problem with gun liberty to have more guns?

Our crime rate is through the roof compared to Canada, Europe, Japan, and I'm sure Australia as well. This country is filled with people who have neither respect for the rule of law nor themselves. And when these criminals are caught they're sent to a resort where all they do is gangbang and have sex with each other, all on the taxpayer's dollar. Count me as someone who is in favor of mandatory prison labor so at the very least they pay for their room and board. You know it costs $30,000 per year to keep someone locked up?

 

[NIX]

What on earth is wrong with your country? Why on earth is every solution to an already outrageous problem with gun liberty to have more guns?

Well, look, I don't personally see my suggestion as a be all end all type 'solution' to the problem, but I see no reason to keep the innocent completely defenseless while hopefully we work more to get at the actual heart and center of our criminal violence issues-- which dare I say have to do with mental health issues and a pleathora of other things connected with that?

I personally can only think of two valid uses for guns.
Hunting for food and self defense.

It's the criminals and the mentally ill who make gun use a horror.

Would I prefer a world without guns? sure.
Short of that, I would prefer that the innocents have ample protection/defense from the crazies.

 

[Mister_T]

I see no reason at all why certain institutions shouldn't have a key (code and hand print recognition) and police call release system for gun lock boxes strategically located around the site, to be opened by employees trained to shoot in the case of an emergency situation where an armed intruder NEEDS TO BE STOPPED QUICKLY.

To me, this is simple common sense. I am absolutely heartbroken by Friday's slaughter of the innocents. The defenseless are the ones who need measures of self defence. The knowledge that there are lock boxes with guns located in a school and employees there trained to shoot might also DETER maniacs from busting in like they own the place and there's nothing anyone can do about it. The predator does not want to become quick prey. It takes only one maniac with a gun to kill multitudes. As well it takes only one person with a gun to shoot down the maniac and stop the mass devistation from continuing. But if you have to wait for that person to come in from outside.... it just takes too long.

It's far better common sense to have a few policeman on campus like in high school and colleges, rather than expecting teachers to be Rambo.

 

[Reverend Rick]

It's far better common sense to have a few policeman on campus like in high school and colleges, rather than expecting teachers to be Rambo.

I agree, but if Rambo was a teacher, I would not want to prevent him from being armed either.

When I say schools need greater security, I'm thinking electronic door locks, metal detectors and such.

 

[NIX]

It's far better common sense to have a few policeman on campus like in high school and colleges, rather than expecting teachers to be Rambo.

Well, it's my leaning that you underestimate citizens' ability to be well trained and cool headed enough to react succinctly and accordingly in an emergency situation - but that said, sure, if towns can afford it, or do away with some other things, employ full time police officers.

 

[Copernicus]

I agree, but if Rambo was a teacher, I would not want to prevent him from being armed either.

When I say schools need greater security, I'm thinking electronic door locks, metal detectors and such.

I can certainly agree with your last sentence. I have trouble with the idea in your first sentence. If the event were to take place in a Hollywood movie, then I'm fine with it. In real life, putting lots of guns in the hands of lots of adults in proximity of kids is just asking for more statistical anomalies to make headlines. These massacres don't happen every day, but they could be more frequent. Let's not go there.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I see no reason at all why certain institutions shouldn't have a key (code and hand print recognition) and police call release system for gun lock boxes strategically located around the site, to be opened by employees trained to shoot in the case of an emergency situation where an armed intruder NEEDS TO BE STOPPED QUICKLY.

I think of guns like fire extinguishers. We have requirements for fire safety but rarely have a fire. I like your idea of keeping guns locked up and can only be accessed by qualified trusted people with official permission.

Just as fire codes have requirements for certain kind of doors and occupancy limits, so should there be minimum security requirements as well.

 

[NIX]

I agree, but if Rambo was a teacher, I would not want to prevent him from being armed either.

When I say schools need greater security, I'm thinking electronic door locks, metal detectors and such.

I'm pretty sure that I read that the shooter shot and busted his way through the locked doors of the school. (but then I've read many conflicting and revised accounts)

I dunno, schools are gunna have to be built and guarded like prisons I guess.

Honestly, the more prison-like the schools become, the more I would want to strive to find a way to hire tutors and bring education home.
I personally would rather hire tutors with my money than spend it on sending my child to a prison building each day. But that's me.

 

[Reverend Rick]

We give CPR training to people every year, perhaps a defense class or security awareness would help. Every solution should not include a gun.