Colin Powell, former secretary of state, dies of COVID-19 complications

[esmith]

Did Saddam Hussein have WMD? Answer is Yes
Saddam had sarin gas, sarin gas is considered a WMD
So, go pitch you falsehoods somewhere eles.
Sarin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack

 

[We Never Know]

Colin Powell: “You can't make someone else's choices. You shouldn't let someone else make yours.”

 

[Revoltingest]

Nobody should forget that Powell was a key player in the Iraq War, one of the 21st century's biggest crimes against humanity. In my opinion, anyone who calls him a good person needs to think about the hundreds of thousands of deaths as well as the systematic torture that resulted from the invasion of Iraq.

I hope we never see a repeat of his or Bush's mistakes again. I don't wish for anyone to die of COVID-19, though. That's a tough way to go.

I might agree if he had intended things to have turned
out as they did. But he did not. He regretted his stance.
Good people can make mistakes, & then face them.

Question....
Hillary & Biden voted for that war.
Do you judge them the same?

 

[ecco]

Did Saddam Hussein have WMD? Answer is Yes
Saddam had sarin gas, sarin gas is considered a WMD

Your comment is worded in such a way as to distract from the core of the issue. The question is not, did Saddam Hussein have sarin. The question is did Saddam Hussein have sarin at the time Powell made his speech before the UN.

So, go pitch you falsehoods somewhere eles.

So, go pitch your misleading arguments somewhere else.

 

[ecco]

Powell did what he did because he forgot that his oath was to the Constitution, not to his Commander in Chief.

Fortunately, the heads of the military did not make that same mistake last January.

 

[esmith]

Your comment is worded in such a way as to distract from the core of the issue. The question is not, did Saddam Hussein have sarin. The question is did Saddam Hussein have sarin at the time Powell made his speech before the UN.




So, go pitch your misleading arguments somewhere else.

Yes. as a matter of fact he did.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2012/12/13/sarin-gas-gulf-war-veterans/1766835/
Want to withdraw your last statement
I would say something else but anything I say to you just rattles around.

 

[Kooky]

Colin Powell: “You can't make someone else's choices. You shouldn't let someone else make yours.”

So he was opposed to representative democracy?

 

[esmith]

So he was opposed to representative democracy?

Ah, your statement under your member identy is definitely apropos

 

[Aštra’el]

Sounds like an honorable man. May he Rest In Peace.

 

[ecco]

Your comment is worded in such a way as to distract from the core of the issue. The question is not, did Saddam Hussein have sarin. The question is did Saddam Hussein have sarin at the time Powell made his speech before the UN.

Yes. as a matter of fact he did.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2012/12/13/sarin-gas-gulf-war-veterans/1766835/
Want to withdraw your last statement

No! as a matter of FACT, he didn't.
Did you read the article you linked? Actually, read and understand it?
Do you know that Powell made his UN speech in 2003?
Do you know the article you linked is about 1991?

From your link...

WASHINGTON -- U.S. bombings of Iraqi munitions factories in January 1991 released a plume of sarin gas that traveled more than 300 miles....

The Jan. 18, 1991, bombings of the munitions plants in Nasiriyah and Khamisiya blew a plume of sarin gas high above a layer of cold, still air...​

So, no. There is no need to withdraw any of my comments. However, you have now twice posted misleading comments.

I would say something else but anything I say to you just rattles around.

Many of your comments rattle around in the intentional misinformation bin. So, perhaps it is better for you if you don't try to pursue this any further.

 

[Twilight Hue]

He was neither a man of honor nor was he duped. He stood before Congress, the United Nations, and the American people and asserted, repeatedly, that Hussain had WMD.

Powell was not a dumb person. He was exceptionally intelligent. He could look at all the available intelligence and know that he was lying. However, he had the General's mindset - support the chain of command. In his case, the next level up was Bush who wanted a war with Hussain. He supported Bush's allegations. We attacked Iraq and completely lost sight of the real problem - Afghanistan and the terrorist organizations headquartered there.


Here is a good summary...

Lie After Lie: What Colin Powell Knew About Iraq 15 Years Ago and What He Told the U.N.

LIE AFTER LIE: WHAT COLIN POWELL KNEW ABOUT IRAQ 15 YEARS AGO AND WHAT HE TOLD THE U.N.
The evidence is irrefutable: Powell consciously deceived the world in his 2003 presentation making the case for war with Saddam Hussein.​

You know there is some evidence I recall at the time that WMDs were being shipped out of Iraq into Syria.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Always came across as a nice bloke.

I have a deep respect for the man.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I might agree if he had intended things to have turned
out as they did. But he did not. He regretted his stance.
Good people can make mistakes, & then face them.

His intentions aren't going to compensate for the nearly 500,000 Iraqi deaths in the war. Just as a hypothetical, how many years in prison would involuntary manslaughter against that many people result in?

Regret doesn't bring back lost lives. He should have been tried for misleading the public and enabling the crimes in Iraq; the penalty should have been proportional to his level of power and responsibility.

Question....
Hillary & Biden voted for that war.
Do you judge them the same?

Yes. I have made multiple posts here criticizing both for that exact reason. However, I also think we should keep in mind how much influence and power each contributor to the war had. I don't think Biden or Hillary Clinton have the same level of culpability as Bush and Cheney, but they're still culpable for their vote.

 

[Revoltingest]

His intentions aren't going to compensate for the nearly 500,000 Iraqi deaths in the war. Just as a hypothetical, how many years in prison would involuntary manslaughter against that many people result in?

Regret doesn't bring back lost lives. He should have been tried for misleading the public and enabling the crimes in Iraq; the penalty should have been proportional to his level of power and responsibility.

If one judges the man & the consequences separately,
then one gets different results. I see a huge difference
between intending evil, & unintentionally contributing to it.

 

[Debater Slayer]

If one judges the man & the consequences separately,
then one gets different results. I see a huge difference
between intending evil, & contributing to it with opposite
intentions.

The result is the same in this case. This is why holding that level of power and influence is a major responsibility: when someone like Powell messes up and enables hundreds of thousands of deaths, years-long torture, and destruction of a country, then his intentions matter very little compared to the practical consequences of his actions.

 

[Revoltingest]

The result is the same in this case. This is why holding that level of power and influence is a major responsibility: when someone like Powell messes up and enables hundreds of thousands of deaths, years-long torture, and destruction of a country, then his intentions matter very little compared to the practical consequences of his actions.

Do you find intent irrelevant, ie, only consequences
should be the basis for judging someone?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Do you find intent irrelevant, ie, only consequences
should be the basis for judging someone?

It depends on the situation and the consequences. In Powell's case, I think his intent matters very little given the scope and impact of the consequences. People's lives aren't dispensable toys subject to the intent of some foreign official who contributed to the loss of said lives.

By the way, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, he kept defending his support for the war until the end of his tenure, so it's not like he showed much regret at the time either.

 

[Revoltingest]

It depends on the situation and the consequences. In Powell's case, I think his intent matters very little given the scope and impact of the consequences. People's lives aren't dispensable toys subject to the intent of some foreign official who contributed to the loss of said lives.

By the way, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, he kept defending his support for the war until the end of his tenure, so it's not like he showed much regret at the time either.

Interesting.
Hillary voted (as Senator) to start one war, & multiple times
to continue both wars. The consequences would make her
at least as bad as Powell.

Trump never caused us to start & continue wars. His record
of not causing so much death would make him the better
person by your standard of "scope & impact".

Yet you favored her in the 2016 election....with great fervor
& criticism of those who voted for Trump. This seems a tad
inconsistent.

Edit...
FYI, I opposed all those wars. And that was one reason I
opposed Hillary. Biden voted to start the Iraq war. Does
his record make him worse than Trump, who never started
a war?

 

[ecco]

You know there is some evidence I recall at the time that WMDs were being shipped out of Iraq into Syria.

You Me
You know No I don't there is some evidence which you can not produce I recall you recall many false ideas at the time that WMDs the non-existent WMDs were being shipped out of Iraq into Syria.

Why do you continue to post spurious allegations which you cannot support with facts?

 

[ecco]

It is very clear, with what we know today, that Powell knew there were no WMDs in Iraq. Yet, like a good soldier, he followed the orders of his Commander-in-Chief and presented Bush's case to the world.

He ignored that his Oath was to the Constitution, not to his President. If he had resigned, the outcome might not have been any different. Bush still could have invaded Iraq. On the other hand, if he had resigned, many in Congress might have been less inclined to approve Bush's demands.

Whatever the outcome, Powell would have had his self-respect and the respect of most Americans.