Clearly, God wants us to worship Him, but why should we?

[Sunstone]

Rumi, Hafiz, Kabir, St. Francis of Assisi, Ramana Maharshi, Baal Shem Tov, Milarepa, Papaji, Ramakrishna and many others.

Are you forgetting the non-theists -- including atheists -- who have had mystical experiences? Just curious. Don't want to debate it with you --- at least, not in this thread.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Has the act of worship been defined by the ones demanding worship?

 

[Trailblazer]

A mystical experience is not necessarily "close to god". Who knows what they are?

Okay, fair enough.

 

[Trailblazer]

New Has the act of worship been defined by the ones demanding worship?

No, but as you can see in the verses I posted from various religions, God demands worship.

 

[Trailblazer]

Looks more like something a man would want rather than a god.

In light of the fact that God does not need anything, yes.

 

[Trailblazer]

Are you forgetting the non-theists -- including atheists -- who have had mystical experiences?

I believe that have these experiences if that is what you are asking.
No God required.

 

[osgart]

If God has done nothing for us and is perfectly righteous then perhaps we are not apart of God's life.

If God has done something for us then we owe that measure of what was done.

If God is unknowable even having done something for us then it's up to us to live our best life possible according to our own best judgment.

If God is knowable and righteous and has done nothing for us then we need to fix ourselves.

If there is no God then all we are doing is trying to be the best possible person's we can be by doing this exercise.

 

[Trailblazer]

God is above all those petty things. God does not need worship. God doesn't even want worship.

If that were true, that would mean all the religions from which I quoted scriptures are based upon a lie.
The hundred-dollar question is why you believe you know more about God than all the major religions.

That said, I do not believe that God needs worship, and God does not even want worship, not for Himself.

 

[Trailblazer]

If God has done something for us then we owe that measure of what was done.

Thanks for presenting those very well thought out logical possibilities.

I had to pick "if God has done something for us then we owe that measure of what was done."
I pick it halfheartedly, because I am a Baha'i and I believe that God has sent Messengers so we would know Him and know His Will for us in every age. So I guess we owe God something for doing sending us Messengers.

But my first question still stands:
1. why does God want us to worship Him?

 

[Skwim]

There are two questions I would like you to answer.

1. Since God is fully self-sufficient and fully self- sustaining, omnipotent and omniscient, God does not need humans for anything, so why does God want us to worship Him?

Never seen a piece of scripture that says he does. Do you have something in mind?

2. Look at these scriptures from various religions. They all say essentially the same thing. God wants us to worship Him, but why should we? What has God done to deserve our worship?

As I said above, I don't believe god wants anyone to; at least I've never seen it. As for being deserving of worship I don't think he is.

]Bhagavad Gita 7.1 The Supreme Lord said: Now listen, O Arjun, how, with the mind attached exclusively to me, and surrendering to me through the practice of bhakti yog, you can know me completely, free from doubt.

Don't know enough about the writing to comment on it. Besides, I don't care anymore about it than I do the Sikh scriptures.

Exodus 20:1-3 And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me.”

Matthew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”

None of this is relevant to OP's title claim.

“Indeed, I am Allah. There is no God except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.” (Quran 20:14)

Can't care what the Quran has to say. May as well haul out the Upanishads or the Vedas.

“VERILY I am God, no God is there but Me, and aught except Me is but My creation. Say, worship Me then, O ye, My creatures.” Selections From the Writings of the Báb, p. 158

Don't know enough about the Bab to care what he says.

“O kings of the earth! He Who is the sovereign Lord of all is come. The Kingdom is God’s, the omnipotent Protector, the Self-Subsisting. Worship none but God, and, with radiant hearts, lift up your faces unto your Lord, the Lord of all names. This is a Revelation to which whatever ye possess can never be compared, could ye but know it.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 210

This still isn't god saying he wants anyone to worship him.

From what I can tell the only one with the idea that we should worship god is someone else. Never god.
.

 

[Trailblazer]

Never seen a piece of scripture that says he does. Do you have something in mind?

All of the scriptures cited in the OP.

As I said above, I don't believe god wants anyone to; at least I've never seen it.

So what do you think those scriptures in the OP are saying?

As for being deserving of worship I don't think he is.

Why not?

This still isn't god saying he wants anyone to worship him.

So what do you think it is saying?

 

[Trailblazer]

Religion is mankind's attempt to understand God. Why do you assume they understand God? Mankind assumes God wants worship.

I do not assume that religion understands God, but I believe that Messengers of God understand God.
Messengers of God say that God wants us to worship Him and I believe that, but I want to know why.

Can you see? The first thing God pointed out to me is that mankind carries such a narrow view. Let's widen the view and stretch our thinking beyond the simple.

Why do you assume you understand God? Did you get a message from God?

 

[InChrist]

There are two questions I would like you to answer.

1. Since God is fully self-sufficient and fully self- sustaining, omnipotent and omniscient, God does not need humans for anything, so why does God want us to worship Him?

2. Look at these scriptures from various religions. They all say essentially the same thing. God wants us to worship Him, but why should we? What has God done to deserve our worship?

Bhagavad Gita 7.1 The Supreme Lord said: Now listen, O Arjun, how, with the mind attached exclusively to me, and surrendering to me through the practice of bhakti yog, you can know me completely, free from doubt.

Exodus 20:1-3 And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me.”

Matthew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”

“Indeed, I am Allah. There is no God except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.” (Quran 20:14)

“VERILY I am God, no God is there but Me, and aught except Me is but My creation. Say, worship Me then, O ye, My creatures.” Selections From the Writings of the Báb, p. 158

“O kings of the earth! He Who is the sovereign Lord of all is come. The Kingdom is God’s, the omnipotent Protector, the Self-Subsisting. Worship none but God, and, with radiant hearts, lift up your faces unto your Lord, the Lord of all names. This is a Revelation to which whatever ye possess can never be compared, could ye but know it.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 210

I think worship is love expressed toward God in response to God’s love poured out to us His creation. God is love and we were created to exist in an eternal, loving relationship with our Creator. Expressing love/worship to God brings complete freedom, fulfillment, peace and joy that can only be found in God’s love.

 

[Trailblazer]

To Revere and adore is to know someone very well and have relationship with them in a knowing and deserving way.

Revere is to hold in highest esteem, and to adore is to fervently love someone. If God deserves this then there is nothing ridiculous about giving it.

That's true, but how do we know that God deserves this?
It all boils down to what scriptures say about God doesn't it, but why should we believe them?

 

[Trailblazer]

I think worship is love expressed toward God in response to God’s love poured out to us His creation.

But where is the actual proof that God poured any love out to His creation?
I guess the Bible is enough proof for you. I cannot say it is enough for me.

 

[InChrist]

But where is the actual proof that God poured any love out to His creation?
I guess the Bible is enough proof for you. I cannot say it is enough for me.

JESUS- His coming to earth, dying and paying for the sins of the world which we could never pay for, His resurrection to new life offering freedom and eternal life to all who accept His love and trust Him as Savior.

 

[Skwim]

All of the scriptures cited in the OP.

So what do you think those scriptures in the OP are saying?

Well it sure isn't god saying so. Take a closer look at who's saying we should worship god. It certainly isn't god. Of course if there's a verse wherein god says he wants to be worshiped I'll withdraw my observation.

Why not?

Lack of reason to. In fact, considering his powers there's plenty of reason not to.
He

Condones slavery
Killed innocent babies and women
Tells victors they can rape the women of their defeated enemy
Supposedly gave mankind free will and then when they didn't exercise it as he demanded it he killed them all
Oversaw the creation of the Bible, a text so riddled with faults that it's led people to his Hell
Created original sin ensuring that billions of people would suffer their entire lives for the act of two very naive people.​

So what do you think it is saying?

It's saying that someone else is telling people to worship god. God isn't telling anyone anything of the sort.

.

 

[InChrist]

But where is the actual proof that God poured any love out to His creation?
I guess the Bible is enough proof for you. I cannot say it is enough for me.

Why? Have you asked the Savior to reveal His love to you?

 

[Trailblazer]

Are you asking these questions on behalf of yourself?

Not only myself but everyone else.

If you are, and assuming you believe god exists, I'm saying that if you turn it around, instead of asking god what are his reasons for believers to worship him, maybe believers would ask are they worthy of being asked to begin with. If they feel they are not worthy of god's grace, etc, then when god asks them to worship him, it would see more of a master/slave relationship (of force) rather than of desire: a want rather than a must.

If believers are not worthy of being asked, why would God ask?
For me it is not a matter of being worthy, it is a matter of believing the grace is there.
Why should I believe that, just because scriptures say that?

 

[Trailblazer]

Are you asking because other people want you to believe god loves you by scriptures?

Yes, that is why I am asking. You are very intuitive.

Would it not be beneficial to understand how god loves you in the way you are convinced, understand, and experience it?

Absolutely, that is what I am seeking.

I'm not sure of real evidence because everyone's relationship with god is different. I'm asking, though. Why would you ask for evidence to be convinced?

Because I need evidence to be convinced, experiential evidence, not just what scriptures say.

Unless it's maybe a philosophical question?
Something to learn from in other people's point of view?

It's that too, but if they keep telling me I have to believe because scriptures say so, I do not buy it.
I need more than that.