Christians, which Old Testament Laws to obey, and which to ignore?

[Israel12]

Jesus never stopped any sacrifices. He was an was born, lived, and died an observant Jew. After he died, his Jewish followers continued to do sacrifices, including Paul.

Of course they did which shows you the laws were not done away with but the point I'm speaking of is there was no need for the gentile Israelites to do it so therefore dont let the circumcision judge you. Why? Because we knew through faith that 70 ad the curses would come again and we would have no temple to sacrifice and Christ was that sacrifice. That's what I mean by that

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Of course they did which shows you the laws were not done away with but the point I'm speaking of is there was no need for the gentile Israelites to do it so therefore dont let the circumcision judge you. Why? Because we knew through faith that 70 ad the curses would come again and we would have no temple to sacrifice and Christ was that sacrifice. That's what I mean by that

Well, there is no such thing as Gentile Israelites. Gentile believers in Jesus did not do sacrifices, of course, nor have they ever needed to keep the covenant between Israel and God.

 

[Israel12]

Well, there is no such thing as Gentile Israelites. Gentile believers in Jesus did not do sacrifices, of course, nor have they ever needed to keep the covenant between Israel and God.

Absolutely there are gentile Israelites. You see this very clear in Romans 9:24-26 and Hosea chapter 1

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Absolutely there are gentile Israelites. You see this very clear in Romans 9:24-26 and Hosea chapter 1

Romans 9:24-26 never mentions anything called Gentile Israelites, and I wouldn't care if it did, since Christian scriptures hold no authority on Jewish matters.

Where in Hosea chapter 1 does it mention Gentile Israelites?

 

[Israel12]

Romans 9:24-26 never mentions anything called Gentile Israelites, and I wouldn't care if it did, since Christian scriptures hold no authority on Jewish matters.

Where in Hosea chapter 1 does it mention Gentile Israelites?

Well that's based of your personal belief which is irrelevant. Romans 9:24-26 mentions the Jews being called as well as the gentiles being called. Then it uses Hebrew scriptures to validate the calling of gentiles using Hosea the 1st chapter. Now if you read Hosea the 1st chapter it literally tells you that northern kingdom would be cut off and no longer God's people making them what? Gentiles. BUT they would again be called the son's of the living God which came to pass on Romans 9:24-26 thus we see Israelites being called gentiles. Accept it or not it's something you gotta deal with

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Well that's based of your personal belief which is irrelevant. Romans 9:24-26 mentions the Jews being called as well as the gentiles being called. Then it uses Hebrew scriptures to validate the calling of gentiles using Hosea the 1st chapter. Now if you read Hosea the 1st chapter it literally tells you that northern kingdom would be cut off and no longer God's people making them what? Gentiles. BUT they would again be called the son's of the living God which came to pass on Romans 9:24-26 thus we see Israelites being called gentiles. Accept it or not it's something you gotta deal with

Paul is speaking of being called to the gospel. He is not speaking of being called to the Sinai covenant. Paul is very, very consistent in preaching that Gentiles are not obligated to obey the Law. Like I've said, they are not Israel, so they do not have this covenant.

Again, you are not quoting any specific verses in Hosea 1 that mentions Gentile Israelites.

The northern tribes (at least those which did not flee to Judah as refugees) are lost to us. They intermarried. With very few exceptions (which have been found and restored by the state of Israel), they will never be found again until the Messiah returns.

It is therefore just foolishness for Gentiles such as black, Americans, British, or what have you, to claim that they are Israelites.

Those small groups which did turn out to be Israelites never gave up Torah observance, not ever, and never gave up their knowledge that they were Israelites.

I have a friend, last name of Ephramovich, whose family lived with Russian Gypsies. Now Gypsies commonly follow whatever religion is the religion of the culture in which they are trying to survive, so the Gypsy band in which his family lived was Russian Orthodox. YET his family was not. They lived by Torah alone, and did not eat unclean meats. Their family preserved the knowledge that they were Israelites. When his family was found by the state of Israel, they gladly became religious Jews and were fully united with the rest of b'nei Yisrael.

THAT's how it works. None of this silly let's tell Jews they aren't really Israel. It's all about reunification.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

What else could Hosea 14:2 possibly mean? The words of our lips are bullocks. Sometimes it reads, The calves of our lips. You can look into it.

No you misunderstand. I know it means a sacrifice being the fruit of our lips. But it doesn't say anything about meaning to do it when you aren't able to perform regular sacrifices. The fruit of our lips is always a sacrifice we can make to God.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Go through a list of the taryag mitzvot, the list of the Rambam is the one most cited, and you’ll understand, I hope, why your question makes no sense.

Of course I mean all the laws that apply to you. Do you keep all the laws that apply to you in the prescribed way? Take the passover for instance. Do you do everything it says to do in all the ways you are told to keep it?

 

[metis]

Of course I mean all the laws that apply to you. Do you keep all the laws that apply to you in the prescribed way? Take the passover for instance. Do you do everything it says to do in all the ways you are told to keep it?

Why are you making this personal with @RabbiO?

IOW, please get to your point?

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Why are you making this personal with @RabbiO?

IOW, please get to your point?

I wasn't trying to make this personal with Rabbio. He stepped into the conversation and I was responding. I am making the point that the Jews in general appear to be unable to keep all the laws required of them in the prescribed ways. Which to me seems to indicate a problem.

I believe we were all intended to keep the new covenant, which was for whosoever will, including the Jews. I am trying to point out, that that could be the reason why it is impossible to keep the law as prescribed in the old covenant.

 

[metis]

I am making the point that the Jews in general appear to be unable to keep all the laws required of them in the prescribed ways.

So?

I could ask you if you have always kept all of the teachings of Jesus, but I'm not going to.

Not all Jewish Laws are the same, and the potential penalty for violating any a law could go from being stoned down to nothing that's cited. Also, one can seek forgiveness from God, which is mentioned many times in the Tanakh. If you have a concordance, maybe look it up.

Which to me seems to indicate a problem.

I think a far bigger problem is when one is so judgmental and tries to play "God". Unless someone is being hurt in the process, I would suggest that someone else's sins are between God and them.

I believe we were all intended to keep the new covenant, which was for whosoever will, including the Jews

Why would you believe that's essential if humanity survived for several million years before Jesus walked the Earth? What about all those who have no idea who Jesus even was? Why would God supposedly just favor two small groups of people (Jews, then the early Christians), in one small area of the world (eretz Israel), at one time in history (2-3 thousand years ago), and then ignore myriads of others throughout the world for all time periods?

 

[TrueBeliever37]

So?

I could ask you if you have always kept all of the teachings of Jesus, but I'm not going to.

Not all Jewish Laws are the same, and the potential penalty for violating any a law could go from being stoned down to nothing that's cited. Also, one can seek forgiveness from God, which is mentioned many times in the Tanakh. If you have a concordance, maybe look it up.


I think a far bigger problem is when one is so judgmental and tries to play "God". Unless someone is being hurt in the process, I would suggest that someone else's sins are between God and them.

Why would you believe that's essential if humanity survived for several million years before Jesus walked the Earth? What about all those who have no idea who Jesus even was? Why would God supposedly just favor two small groups of people (Jews, then the early Christians), in one small area of the world (eretz Israel), at one time in history (2-3 thousand years ago), and then ignore myriads of others throughout the world for all time periods?

You are being judgmental. - Implying someone else is being judgmental and trying to play "God". And don't be ridiculous, I'm not suggesting anyone's sins are not between them and God.

But, I believe we are in a debate section here. My only aim is to help someone if I can. If they don't believe I am correct, they don't have to listen to me, or believe what I say. But I have the right to express my beliefs the same as you. And actually I wasn't even discussing it with you till you jumped in trying to cause problems.

If you want to debate something regarding the scripture please do so. But don't just try to cause problems. Thanks.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No you misunderstand. I know it means a sacrifice being the fruit of our lips. But it doesn't say anything about meaning to do it when you aren't able to perform regular sacrifices. The fruit of our lips is always a sacrifice we can make to God.

If it is a sacrifice indeed, then it is a sacrifice we CAN make when there is no temple? I mean, once you admit it is a valid sacrifice, one follows the other.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

If it is a sacrifice indeed, then it is a sacrifice we CAN make when there is no temple? I mean, once you admit it is a valid sacrifice, one follows the other.

I would agree it is a sacrifice that CAN be made. Happy Birthday!

 

[metis]

You are being judgmental. - Implying someone else is being judgmental and trying to play "God".

That's like some of the Trump supporters calling those who bring up Trump's racism as somehow being racist themselves. Come on, you should be better than this.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

That's like some of the Trump supporters calling those who bring up Trump's racism as somehow being racist themselves. Come on, you should be better than this.

You should have been better than to make that bogus statement about me to begin with. What I said was true. You were being every bit as judgmental of me, as you were accusing me of being.

 

[metis]

You should have been better than to make that bogus statement about me to begin with. What I said was true. You were being every bit as judgmental of me, as you were accusing me of being.

 

[Muffled]

Well, yes, absolutely!
For most Christians Jesus is God or with God, so yeah.
Thing is, then it would need to be decided about what he wants.

I believe the passive tense doesn't work. It is Jesus who decides what He wants. Our job is Islam: hear and obey.

 

[Muffled]

And Christ said to do everything God said (Matthew 4:4) which includes the 600 plus laws

I believe you misread that. The verb is present tense not past tense. It is whatever God says now not what God said to someone else in the past.

 

[oldbadger]

I believe the passive tense doesn't work. It is Jesus who decides what He wants. Our job is Islam: hear and obey.

OK. But supposing some Christians are a bit hard of hearing? Not all Christians agree about which laws still count.
Many have dismissed the OT laws on this thread. Others choose some OT laws. Some focus upon love, others focus upon a vicious Jesus with sword flicking from his mouth, yet others offer complete understanding for so many human conditions.
Who to listen to?