Christians - priesthood authority

[Snowbear]

The won't matter anymore? Then why did God make such a big deal of making sure that earthly marriages were so respected? Why did he place so much stress and importance on earthly marriages, if for the rest of eternity they just don't matter?

Because they are important to us while we are sinful people here on earth.

 

[Aqualung]

Because they are important to us while we are sinful people here on earth.

and they are important to us while we are perfect people there in heaven. Why even bother giving peter the ability to seal in heaven what he seals on earth if nothing will even stay sealed once it gets to heaven? It really seems to devalue that gift to bind and loose in heaven.

 

[Snowbear]

I agree that it would be a joy beyond imagination. It will be awesome. But just because it's beyond imagination doesn't mean that there isn't the greater joy - the joy of being able to share that with your family.

Yes, infinite Joy would be even greater if your family joins you there. I think family gets there the same way I will, though (Jesus told us how to do that). Not by some priest performing a rite that bonds them to me

 

[Snowbear]

Why even bother giving peter the ability to seal in heaven what he seals on earth if nothing will even stay sealed once it gets to heaven?

The gifts of forgiveness and salvation are not loosed once we get to heaven. THOSE are the gifts that Jesus paid for and the reason the disciples work so hard to spread that awesome news to others... No priest is needed to secure those gifts as they've already been secured.

My username is my fate hear on earth. I am a loser beyond measure. That curse will be lifted (loosed) once I join God in eternity

 

[Aqualung]

Yes, infinite Joy would be even greater if your family joins you there. I think family gets there the same way I will, though (Jesus told us how to do that). Not by some priest performing a rite that bonds them to me

They'll get to heaven, sure. But you won't be a family anymore. You'll just be people, who know each other.

 

[Aqualung]

The gifts of forgiveness and salvation are not loosed once we get to heaven. THOSE are the gifts that Jesus paid for and the reason the disciples work so hard to spread that awesome news to others... No priest is needed to secure those gifts as they've already been secured.

My username is my fate hear on earth. I am a loser beyond measure. That curse will be lifted (loosed) once I join God in eternity

That's not what it meant at all, and I have no idea how you are getting that interpretation.
Matt 16:19 "And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
This was a very specific right given to a very specific person. A priest definitely needs to secure these gifts. That's why Jesus had to give this ability to peter. Peter didn't just have it, because that's just what happens. He needed to be given it. And it he who does the binding and loosing, not Jesus. Granted, he can do it because Jesus gave him the authority, but it is peter with that ability now.

 

[Snowbear]

They'll get to heaven, sure. But you won't be a family anymore. You'll just be people, who know each other.

There again we disagree.... we will all be part of the Family of God ~ as we are now, only even more so 'cause we'll e with our Father

 

[Aqualung]

...we'll e with our Father

Ah, yes. That'll be the day...:bounce

 

[Snowbear]

That's not what it meant at all, and I have no idea how you are getting that interpretation.
Matt 16:19 "And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
This was a very specific right given to a very specific person. A priest definitely needs to secure these gifts. That's why Jesus had to give this ability to peter. Peter didn't just have it, because that's just what happens. He needed to be given it. And it he who does the binding and loosing, not Jesus. Granted, he can do it because Jesus gave him the authority, but it is peter with that ability now.

I do have an idea how you're getting this interpretation. But obviously my beliefs do not follow your religious doctrine.

I think the "keys" are forgiveness and salvation. Yes, the power to grant those was given to Peter that day. As that power was given to the rest of the apostles and many, many disciples later. But the gifts are not given to non-believers. They are given freely to anyone who believes on Him, whether or not a priest is involved.

Thanks for the debate.... you have all helped me to research and clarify and strengthen my beliefs.

 

[Aqualung]

I do have an idea how you're getting this interpretation. But obviously my beliefs do not follow your religious doctrine.

I think the "keys" are forgiveness and salvation. Yes, the power to grant those was given to Peter that day. As that power was given to the rest of the apostles and many, many disciples later. But the gifts are not given to non-believers. They are given freely to anyone who believes on Him, whether or not a priest is involved.

So you think Jesus has to lay his hands on me and bestow upon me forgivness or salvation? I thought all I had to do was beleive and repent to be forgiven.

Thanks for the debate.... you have all helped me to research and clarify and strengthen my beliefs.

Good. I'm glad. Debates certainly are a nice way to strengthen your beleifs, aren't they. You don't normally think about this sort of thing, and what you beleive about it, until someone challenges you. That's why I love to debate religion. :bounce

 

[Katzpur]

Somehow, I don't believe you... The smiley grin gives the impression that you take pleasure in typing that.

I'm sorry you misinterpreted the grin. I really don't see why anyone would call himself a "StewpidLoser," because I don't feel that any of us are. And yes, I do feel kind of awkward typing it in whenever I address a post to you. You really did misunderstand the smiley I picked. I often start out my posts by specifically addressing the person whose post I am commenting on. I don't get any pleasure at all in referring to anyone as a "StewpidLoser."

I think that is a passage taken out of context. I think it means that in that particular case, Peter and John were sent to give them the gift they were praying for, just as a "mere" disciple did to Saul when God told him to (Acts 9).

Out of context? I don't even know how to respond to that, except that it seems to me as if you're just saying that you're going to choose to ignore it. That's your prerogative. I really don't mind at all.

Well, I guess here I just disagree with your church's doctrine.

Yes, I think that that's the bottom line.

I believe His message is to all of us, not just to those 12 disciples.

Did you honestly think I was saying His message was only for twelve individuals? If so, you need to go back and re-read my posts. It is for every man, woman and child who has ever lived, including those who died without ever having had the opportunity to hear it.

Kathryn

 

[Katzpur]

What importance would your husband/wife be in the precense of God? Not putting down earthly marriage (of course) but it would be like wondering where your penny is when you have a billion dollars in front of you. Just wondering what purpose marriage would have in heaven?

To me, it will be of great importance. You're married, I believe. If your wife precedes you in death, will your love for her die? Are you really saying that you don't even care if your relationship continues to exist in the life to come?

 

[Katzpur]

*** MOD POST ***

Since we're getting pretty far off-topic here in discussing the eternal nature of marriage and family, may I suggest that the next person who chooses to post on this subject start a new thread. We could probably have a pretty interesting discussion on the subject, but it probably deserves a thread of its own if we're doing to continue talking about it.

 

[Scott1]

*** MOD POST ***

Since we're getting pretty far off-topic here in discussing the eternal nature of marriage and family, may I suggest that the next person who chooses to post on this subject start a new thread. We could probably have a pretty interesting discussion on the subject, but it probably deserves a thread of its own if we're doing to continue talking about it.

Good idea boss lady,

Done.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=242857#post242857

 

[Snowbear]

So you think Jesus has to lay his hands on me and bestow upon me forgivness or salvation?

Huh??? Where did I say that????

I thought all I had to do was beleive and repent to be forgiven.

Yup! No priests needed for that

 

[Snowbear]

Out of context? I don't even know how to respond to that, except that it seems to me as if you're just saying that you're going to choose to ignore it.

Yes, out of context. Taking a single verse by itself, without the context of the passage or chapter in which it was written is one way many religious folks use to twist the Word to say whatever they want it to. Challenging you on that is by no means ignoring the verse, just challenging your interpretation of what was REALLY said.

 

[Katzpur]

Yes, out of context. Taking a single verse by itself, without the context of the passage or chapter in which it was written is one way many religious folks use to twist the Word to say whatever they want it to. Challenging you on that is by no means ignoring the verse, just challenging your interpretation of what was REALLY said.

Well, obviously we're going to just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Aqualung]

Huh??? Where did I say that????

I quoted this verse, wherein Peter is given certain keys through the laying on of hands. Matt 16:19 "And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
You replied with "I think the "keys" are forgiveness and salvation."
So I thought that meant that the keys referred to in the verse, that you thought they weren't in fact the keys to bind and loose, but the keys of forgiveness and salvation. And since Peter had to actually receive these keys from Jesus, I inferred that that meant you thought forgiveness and salvation (which you defined keys as being) had to be got through that process. And I said that was rediculous, and you obviously agreed. I guess that was just a big mass of confusion, eh?

 

[glasgowchick]

I quoted this verse, wherein Peter is given certain keys through the laying on of hands. Matt 16:19 "And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
You replied with "I think the "keys" are forgiveness and salvation."
So I thought that meant that the keys referred to in the verse, that you thought they weren't in fact the keys to bind and loose, but the keys of forgiveness and salvation. And since Peter had to actually receive these keys from Jesus, I inferred that that meant you thought forgiveness and salvation (which you defined keys as being) had to be got through that process. And I said that was rediculous, and you obviously agreed. I guess that was just a big mass of confusion, eh?

The meaning of this verse has been a subject of debate for centuries, Some say the keys represent the authority to carry out church discipline, legislation
and administration, [ 18:15-18 ] while others say the keys give authority to announce the forgiveness of sins [ John 20:23 ] still others say the keys may be an oportunity to bring people to the kingdom of heaven by presenting them with the message of salvation found in Gods word [ Acts 15:7-9 ] The religous leaders thought they held the keys of the kingdom and they tried to shut some people out. We cannot decide to open or close the kingdom of heaven for others, but God uses us to help others find the way inside, To all who believe in Christ and obey His words the Kingdom door is swung wide open.

 

[Aqualung]

It says right in the verse, "I give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. And whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." How is it that hard?