Christians - priesthood authority

[Aqualung]

Do priests need authority from god to do certain works, like baptisms, and how do they get that authority?

 

[Mike182]

Do priests need authority from god to do certain works, like baptisms, and how do they get that authority?

i think that any baptism done by anyone, is ok - so long as it is the truth from your heart, becaus i dotn think god will turn round and say "oi, get out of my heaven, you didn't get baptised by someone with a piece of paper saying they can baptise people!"

im concidering my own baptism, ive only really been testing the water up until now, been a christian for about half a year now - so i think im ready to jump full in now

so im also concidering how to have it done, where to have it done, who i think is best to do it

and the conclusion i reached

it doesn't matter, what matters is that it is my commitment to God and to Christ, they care about me, not which pool i decide to get splahsed in

C_P

 

[glasgowchick]

im considering my own baptism

Glad to hear it.

i think that any baptism done by anyone, is ok - so long as it is the truth from your heart, becaus i dotn think god will turn round and say "oi, get out of my heaven, you didn't get baptised by someone with a piece of paper saying they can baptise people!"

im concidering my own baptism, ive only really been testing the water up until now, been a christian for about half a year now - so i think im ready to jump full in now

so im also concidering how to have it done, where to have it done, who i think is best to do it

and the conclusion i reached

it doesn't matter, what matters is that it is my commitment to God and to Christ, they care about me, not which pool i decide to get splahsed in

C_P

 

[Aqualung]

i think that any baptism done by anyone, is ok

Do you have a scriptural basis for that? because as far as I can think he never said, "anybody can baptise anybody."

 

[Mike182]

- so long as it is the truth from your heart

is what i said after it - context my dear, context

no its not based in scripture, its based in your heart! as i stressed in my post, baptism is about your commitment to God and to Christ, the rest is just petty detail in comparison - in my oppinion, of course

C_P

 

[Quiddity]

Do priests need authority from god to do certain works

Yup.

like baptisms, and how do they get that authority?

If someone is dieing I am allowed to baptize the person but usually it's the priest that does it. The authority is given to him thru the extenstion of the bishop. The bishop is gets it thru apostolic succession. The source leads to Christ.

~Victor

 

[Aqualung]

is what i said after it - context my dear, context

no its not based in scripture, its based in your heart! as i stressed in my post, baptism is about your commitment to God and to Christ, the rest is just petty detail in comparison - in my oppinion, of course

C_P

Lots of people base their religion in their heart. Do you think you get closer to the truth by following what your human (and therefore imperfect, faulty) heart says, or what God's revealed word says?

 

[Aqualung]

Yup.


If someone is dieing I am allowed to baptize the person but usually it's the priest that does it. The authority is given to him thru the extenstion of the bishop. The bishop is gets it thru apostolic succession. The source leads to Christ.

~Victor

As far as I know, it will be you (the catholics) and us (the latter day saints) against the rest of the christian world on this one, and your input in this argument will definitely be a good thing. :bounce

 

[Scott1]

As far as I know, it will be you (the catholics) and us (the latter day saints) against the rest of the christian world on this one,

I think you might be right... there are not many Lutherans or other non-Catholic Christians on this forum who might agree with us.

My take on this comes from Matt. 10:1,40 - Jesus declares to His apostles, "he who receives you, receives Me, and he who rejects you, rejects Me and the One who sent Me." Jesus freely gives His authority to the apostles....

 

[Mike182]

Lots of people base their religion in their heart. Do you think you get closer to the truth by following what your human (and therefore imperfect, faulty) heart says, or what God's revealed word says?

the truth, as i understand it, is that baptism is about you placing you life and heart and soul in God's hands, and your commitment to following christ

am i wrong?

now, im not going to make a big song and dance about this, but the way your post was posed suggested (to me atleast) that you are saying i follow a perverted truth as appose to God's truth

i am not saying other denominations can't do it how they want to do it, but to me, baptism is this commitment to God and to Christ, and so long as that is the core of what you are doing, what does it matter who does it?

i am inclined to ask why you started this thread, if your asking oppinions and then claiming these other oppinions are not in the name of God

would you think my baptism was inadiquet if i told you it was performed by a close friend whom i love, who is not a minister, priest, or any other authoritve figure in any church denomination? (pretending of course that i was already baptised)


im sorry for the tone of my post aswell, but i did feel you were hinting my faith is based on something that is not God

C_P

 

[Aqualung]

the truth, as i understand it, is that baptism is about you placing you life and heart and soul in God's hands, and your commitment to following christ

am i wrong?

No. That's what it's all about. It's for the remission of sins, and a promise that you will follow him in all you do. But the baptism doesn't really count if it's not done by someone with authority.

now, im not going to make a big song and dance about this, but the way your post was posed suggested (to me atleast) that you are saying i follow a perverted truth as appose to God's truth

Isn't that what a debate is all about? I tell you my proposition, you tell me I'm wrong, and why, and then I tell you you're wrong and why? Of course I think you're wrong! That's why I'm debating and not flatly agreeing with what you say! But I don't mean offense by it. I don't hate you. In fact, I like you. I'm not meaning to be contentious, but to say that I don't disagree is a lie.

i am not saying other denominations can't do it how they want to do it, but to me, baptism is this commitment to God and to Christ, and so long as that is the core of what you are doing, what does it matter who does it?[/qutoe]
Then why did Jesus only give the authority to baptise to certain people? Why didn't he say to everybody to go out and baptise people, instead of just saying it to his apostles, to whom he gave the authority to baptise?

i am inclined to ask why you started this thread, if your asking oppinions and then claiming these other oppinions are not in the name of God

I'm not asking opinions. That's why I put it in the debates thread. Your response made me think you wanted to debate, not just share beleifs.

would you think my baptism was inadiquet if i told you it was performed by a close friend whom i love, who is not a minister, priest, or any other authoritve figure in any church denomination? (pretending of course that i was already baptised)

To an extent, yes. There's the fact that obviously you love Jesus, and you accept him as your saviour, and you think that this baptism is good enough, and I'm sure he won't overlook that. But there is also the fact that a baptism must be done by one who has proper authority.

im sorry for the tone of my post aswell, but i did feel you were hinting my faith is based on something that is not God

C_P

I'm just debating with you. In a debate you are of course going to say that someone is wrong. You can't have much of a debate if everybody agrees on everything.

And I appologize if I came off as personally hostile. I meant to just express disagreement and why I disagreed, not attack you personally.

 

[Mike182]

im sorry, it was just that i read your post as simply saying "you are talking about a perverted form of christianity" - and it really upset me

but im sur eyou did not intend this at all



i think the disagreement here is over the word "authority"

i believe that their is only one hierarchy in the christian faith, and that is jesu at the top, and all of us underneath (ie. on the same level)

so i do not believe that someone has more 'authority' than me, or anyone else, in the christian community (except for Jesus and God)

 

[glasgowchick]

is what i said after it - context my dear, context

no its not based in scripture, its based in your heart! as i stressed in my post, baptism is about your commitment to God and to Christ, the rest is just petty detail in comparison - in my oppinion, of course

C_P

I could agree with that, If you look at Mathew 28:19 Jesus said " Go therefore and make disciples of all nations baptising them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit..The authority comes from Jesus, so if one has heard the Gospel and is a believer, you could pull joe bloggs off the street and get him to dunk one under the water..At the end of the day who knows the faith of the one doing the baptizing priest or not, it could be an outward show on the priests part or whoever, he could look and act like a christian on the outside but inside he could be living a very different life..The faith is on the one being baptized not the baptizer..

 

[James the Persian]

As far as I know, it will be you (the catholics) and us (the latter day saints) against the rest of the christian world on this one, and your input in this argument will definitely be a good thing. :bounce

Don't forget the Orthodox. And, as Scott suggested, the Lutheran church I grew up in would also agree. I believe, though am not certain, that the Anglicans would also.

James

 

[Aqualung]

Don't forget the Orthodox. And, as Scott suggested, the Lutheran church I grew up in would also agree. I believe, though am not certain, that the Anglicans would also.

James

Oh. I don't know enough about the orthodox, lutheran, or anglican churches to just include them or exclude them with one fell swoop, So thank you.

 

[Aqualung]

i think the disagreement here is over the word "authority"
i believe that their is only one hierarchy in the christian faith, and that is jesu at the top, and all of us underneath (ie. on the same level)
so i do not believe that someone has more 'authority' than me, or anyone else, in the christian community (except for Jesus and God)

Then why did Jesus even bother setting certain people apart? Why did he bother calling 12 apostles if everybody is equal? And why was it only them to whom he gave ceratin authorities, like to cast out demons? And if being an apostle does not take certain Aauthorit (we are all apostles in God's eyes), why did the remaining eleven take such care, and pray so much, about who would fill Judas's spot?

 

[Mike182]

Then why did Jesus even bother setting certain people apart? Why did he bother calling 12 apostles if everybody is equal? And why was it only them to whom he gave ceratin authorities, like to cast out demons? And if being an apostle does not take certain Aauthorit (we are all apostles in God's eyes), why did the remaining eleven take such care, and pray so much, about who would fill Judas's spot?

when i read this verse in mathew, i had to ak myself why he wrote it

i can think of two reasons

he is either making the point that these select few were more special than everyone else, and so he is boasting about their status

or

he is saying that because these twelve follow jesus, they have the power to do these things, put your life in jesus's hands like they did, and you to can recieve this wonder aswell - that is also why i believe the power of prayer is open to all of us

ok, so maybe i didn't quite make my statement clear, it's not just anyone who can baptise someone, it can only be someone who has full faith in jesus, but this is the only pre-requisit i can see of performing a baptism. what i had intended to say was anyone in god's community can baptise someone else into it

C_P

 

[Aqualung]

If he really wanted everybody to baptise people, he would have made that clear over and over. Like part of his sermon on the mount would have been about baptising people. Or he would given at least an indication that they could baptise people. It's not just that they follow him. He had a ton of followers. It's that they were given the authority.

 

[Snowbear]

Do you have a scriptural basis for that? because as far as I can think he never said, "anybody can baptise anybody."

Where's the scriptural basis that says, "only an authorized priest can baptise anyone and have it 'count' in God's eyes"?

 

[Mike182]

If he really wanted everybody to baptise people, he would have made that clear over and over. Like part of his sermon on the mount would have been about baptising people. Or he would given at least an indication that they could baptise people. It's not just that they follow him. He had a ton of followers. It's that they were given the authority.

i don't think that in him naming a few people who can do this, he was implying tha tno one else can do it

why would jesus deny people the ability to baptise others into following him? its like saying that these people are more worthy of this power, even though we are all equal in fellowship .... highlighting the word "equal"

C_P