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Clear

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
POST FOUR OF FOUR


The Christian text “Life of Adam and Eve” relates the same incident : Speaking to Adam, the Devil said : “ ...because of you I am expelled and deprived of my glory which I had in the heavens in the midst of angels, and because of you I was cast out onto the earth.” 2 Adam answered, “What have I done to you, and what is my blame with you? Ch 13 “The devil replied,...It is because of you that I have been thrown out of there. 2 When .......Michael brought you and made (us) honor you in the sight of God, and the Lord God said, ‘Behold Adam! I have made you in our image and likeness.’ Ch 14 3 And I answered, ‘I do not honor Adam.’ ...’Why do you compel me? I will not worship one inferior and subsequent to me. I am prior to him in creation; before he was made, I was already made. He ought to worship me.’ 15 1 When they heard this, other angels who were under me refused to honor him. (Life of Adam and Eve (Vita) 12: 1-2, 13:13, 14:2-3; 15:1-3; 16:1-3)

The LDS and other restorationists will be aware of other controversies that arose besides this one where Satan is offended or passed over for honors he felt were due him. The additional information regarding the fall of Lucifer to become Satan, the devil and an enemy to God is more clear and more logical and the early narratives and additional data available in ancient Judaism, Christianity and Islam add logic and data that most of the newer Christian movements no longer have.

This is obviously a summary of data, yet, even an incomplete survey of the early literature makes clear that the early Christian texts demonstrate that the ancients had a sensible concept of the origin of the Devil and for some of the underlying motives as to why Lucifer battles against God and God's plan for the moral education of those among mankind who are willing and wanting to live by the moral laws which will ultimately prepare them to live in happiness and harmony in a social heaven for eternity. It is important to note that this ancient Christian doctrine is the same doctrine found in the Jewish texts that have been cited and it is the same doctrine in the Islamic documents that have been cited. It is a "crossroads" doctrine that was common to early Judaism, to early Christianity, and to early Islam.

Compared to the lack of data and historical incoherence which characterize most modern religious theories the ancient Christian doctrines were, I think, more coherent and more logical and represented a more detailed explanation of the Devils origin. This is partly why I was so astounded to find a modern Christianity that was tied into these base historical issues so closely and converted to restorational theology. I hope the LDS readers will start to understand the tremendous historical strength of their position on these base doctrines.

Such doctrines were "great crossroads of agreement" for early Judeo-Christian-Islamic traditions AND Importantly, they explain and make rational, many of the most difficult moral and theological questions that plague modern christian theology in modern christian movements.



Clear
σινεσετζω
 
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Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
While I am not a Mormon, I do agree with the identification of the UN as being the beast of revelation. And I note here on RF that member's posts on Covid will be removed or censored if they are seen as not being consistent with the view of the UN WHO as to what is true about the Virus. Does that mean what I think it means?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
While I am not a Mormon, I do agree with the identification of the UN as being the beast of revelation. And I note here on RF that member's posts on Covid will be removed or censored if they are seen as not being consistent with the view of the UN WHO as to what is true about the Virus. Does that mean what I think it means?

If you could support your claims with reliable sources it would probably be okay. But that would mean peer reviewed science. Do you know why they come down so hard on science deniers in this case?
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
If you could support your claims with reliable sources it would probably be okay. But that would mean peer reviewed science. Do you know why they come down so hard on science deniers in this case?
I am not discussing the science of Covid, I am discussing the UN as being the beast of revelation or not.
 

Jane.Doe

Active Member
Ok, I accept what you say but I was once given a red hard cover book by a Mormon friend which was exclusively about the beast of revelation, and it was the UN?
I am not discussing the science of Covid, I am discussing the UN as being the beast of revelation or not.
I cannot speak to what your individual Mormon friend may or may not have done. Folks aren't clones of each other, and obviously have individual thoughts on things.

In regards to official theological and/or church stances: official statements of leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (nicknamed "Mormon") have no statements about any one earthly entity (such as the UN) being the beast of Revelation. The Church acknowledges the severity of covid, the importance of social distancing / masking / vaccination / etc, and has very much urged these things since the start of the pandemic.
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
I cannot speak to what your individual Mormon friend may or may not have done. Folks aren't clones of each other, and obviously have individual thoughts on things.

In regards to official theological and/or church stances: official statements of leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (nicknamed "Mormon") have no statements about any one earthly entity (such as the UN) being the beast of Revelation. The Church acknowledges the severity of covid, the importance of social distancing / masking / vaccination / etc, and has very much urged these things since the start of the pandemic.
I understand and had edited my earlier post about a Mormon friend before you posted this, not that I didn't have Mormon friends, just that is was in fact a JW friend. Sorry for my error.:oops:
 

Jane.Doe

Active Member
I understand and had edited my earlier post about a Mormon friend before you posted this, not that I didn't have Mormon friends, just that is was in fact a JW friend. Sorry for my error.:oops:
Ah, thank you for clarifying.

Despite the common mixups from others, "Mormon" and JW really don't have much in common. They are very different beliefs systems, especially on topics of science, education, and end-times.
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Ah, thank you for clarifying.

Despite the common mixups from others, "Mormon" and JW really don't have much in common. They are very different beliefs systems, especially on topics of science, education, and end-times.
Oh I know, I have spoken at length with both frequently about scripture, and we agree on most things wrt big picture, but once we get into detail, there are differences. Thank you and God bless.
 
That may be the theology today but its been a evolving theology that was not the same as it is today. Lots of doctrinal changes more to streamline it to Christianity. It also teaches all can become Gods Christianity does not teach that. At one time the husband had to give the wife permission to enter heaven or they couldn't be there. But if it serves you and keeps you out of trouble good for you.
Sorry I can never believe that faith.

The prophet of the Mormon church also claimed or use to claim having back and forth conversation with God on a daily basis - even the popes have never claimed that. I could never believe that.
 
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cataway

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what you mean by this. LDS Christians do indeed believe in a literal resurrection of a person's body. Such a body would be now made perfect, immortal, and glorified.
yes indeed there will be a resurrection . those people that are dead will live again. but to the thought that they would be ''made perfect, immortal, and glorified'' does not seam to fit with knowing there will be a judgement at sometime after they have lived and shown their real intentions.
 

Jane.Doe

Active Member
That may be the theology today but its been a evolving theology that was not the same as it is today. Lots of doctrinal changes more to streamline it to Christianity. It also teaches all can become Gods Christianity does not teach that. At one time the husband had to give the wife permission to enter heaven or they couldn't be there. But if it serves you and keeps you out of trouble good for you.
Sorry I can never believe that faith.

The prophet of the Mormon church also claimed or use to claim having back and forth conversation with God on a daily basis - even the popes have never claimed that. I could never believe that.
No one is asking you to believe anything :)

My previous was just clarifying what I actually believe (and other members of the Church of Jesus-Christ of Latter-Day Saints). If you want me to go through this point or any others, just let me know.
 

Jane.Doe

Active Member
My problem is why do Mormons call and advertise themselves as Christians - why is there even a need to do that? They are Mormons not Christians both faiths have different beliefs. If you didn't try to portray yourself as a Christian I would respect you. Mormon beliefs are not Christian beliefs.
Being a Christian is about accepting Jesus Christ, the Son of God, as your Lord & Savior. That's the most important thing-- for me the very foundation of whom I am. And I'm going to proudly scream it from the rooftops.

I'm not going to scream "I'm a Lutheran Christian"- cause I"m not. I reject part of Lutheranism. I also reject parts of Catholic Christianity, Methodist Christianity, Orthodox Christianity, and passionately parts of Calvinism Christianity. Etc.
 
I will tell you what just find one Christian that will agree that Satan is Jesus's brother and a Mormon can call themselves a Christian. You won't find one.
These tiny little differences in faith make a huge difference in the theology.
 
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