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Featured Christians and Free Speech

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by thomas t, Jan 16, 2021.

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  1. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    Recently, on a major Christian message board with 20.000 visitors weekly, I ran into two statements criticising the LGBT+ community and laws protecting their rights.

    Here's the first one, 1):
    It's a citation from Naturalnews, see The all-out assault on conservative thought has just begun , saying (among other things) “Biden firmly supports the Equality Act, which would outlaw discrimination against LGBT people. […], laws like this have been weaponized to punish Christians for refusing to celebrate same-sex weddings.”
    This citation did not receive the slightest amount of criticism. Neither by the one who quoted it, not by anyone else on this board. Only agreement there.

    And here comes the second, 2):
    A special contributor linked homosexuality to the mark of the beast in writing about the UN development goals that, according to her, foster the advancement of the rule of the beast from Revelation 13:15-17. These goals promoted “an agenda that must be adhered to. For example - transgenderism for children, homosexuality, pedophilia, and abortion [...]” she said.

    Yet, the people from the LGBT+ community can’t reply there.

    LGBT+ people as well as any (other) non-believers or non-conventional people are transferred to an invisible subsection where they have posting privileges. However, in the main section they are no longer permitted to post once it is discovered that they are LGBT+, non-believing or other. This is the moment when they are separated into the hidden subsection.

    In another major Christian board, which is even bigger in size, opinions that support being gay are banned.


    Lack of free speech is what I consider to be the reason of why fake news are thriving in the first board where the quotes happened.

    My opinion to 1)
    The mentioned passage is fake news, as I see it. Naturalnews, as well as the poster in the Christian board, did not substanciate their claim giving sources.

    Instead, to the best of my knowledge Christians may have been punished for not doing business to the LGBT+ people the way they would do to any other people. As opposed to being punished for reasons of not celebrating something.

    In my opinion, Christians should be less opinionated against free speech in an attempt to get fake news in their communities challenged.

    ---------------------------------
    Concerning 2),
    associating homosexuality with the beast in Revelation 13:15-17 is grossly defamatory, as I see it. Homosexuality, in the eyes of the author, is merely seen as a tool of the evil rather than being part of the identity of many people.

    Yet no chance for them to reply there.

    Combining lack of free speech and defamatory content about the LGBT+ community is bullying, in my opinion.

    The author did not explain what the UN have to do with pedophilia, either, as formulating a reproach of this dimension took her the length of one word only. Moreover, the author did not specify in which way homosexuality can be a part of a threatening agenda.

    Making unsubstantiated accusations is disrespectful behavior, as I see it.

    Furthermore, when they use the term of pedophilia for just anything… they don’t have vocabulary left when it comes to the real child abuse.

    This is at least how I see the situation.


    Thomas
     
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  2. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    A group of people defined and organized by and for a dogma. Dogma worship. The individual doesn't matter. Only the dogma matters. The dogma defines who is 'in' and who is 'out'. Fairness is not a concern because people aren't important. Only the dogma is important.
     
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  3. Vee

    Vee Well-Known Member
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    I'm not defending anyone here, but if it is a Christian message board, why would people who are not of the same belief want to post there? I don't go to the NRA message boards and tell people they're wrong to have weapons. Where would that lead me?
     
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  4. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    There are christian LGBTQ that can't post in some christian forums. I went to a christian forum once that was segregated. Everyone they considered not christian (anyone who opposed the trinity, JW, and LDS) weren't allowed to post in the main board. They were considered "non-believers" by title or guests shoved in with the non-believers who post on the board.

    One time I was there and a LDS lady was speaking her mind. Everyone else jumped on her for not being christian. I said every person who believes in christ (and so forth) are christian. Basically, I backed her up. I think a week later, they finally changed their titles and rules to put LDS as part of the christian sect. They didn't have JW because of the trinity issue and biases in how JW evangelize (though they can be the same or worse from experience).

    They have a small little area for non-christians. If it wasn't segregated like that and people were nicer, I believe non-christians there wouldn't mind having theological conversations or in their "debate" area civilized debates about the nature of god. Unfortunately, all christians there tend to think if you're interested in christ, you want to be christian.

    But I agree, if you're not part of the gang, why post. LGBT christians get put to the side as if they weren't real christians. Yet, straight christians do the same sins that some homosexuals do in bed if not more. People.
     
  5. Vee

    Vee Well-Known Member
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    That is so true. I'm a JW and I would never intentionally hurt someone else with words or actions. It's not up to me to make judgements. If people want to learn about the bible I'll be happy to teach them what I know, but if they don't I respect that and move on to another subject.
    I wouldn't want to spend my time having a debate with people who don't know anything about me, but have already decided they don't like me. We have to learn to pick our "battles" and my time and energy can be put to better use with people I can have a decent conversation with. I much prefer to chat with a nice gay person than a hypocrite straight who's cheating on their spouse.
     
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  6. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    a good question.
    When I know there is an atheist message board that constantly writes slurs about Christians, I would like to stand up and speak my mind there.
    Now that I am on RF, I would do it here, though...

    If there is not one atheist, LGBT+ or whatever non-conventional people there are in the eyes of Christians... who would actually be wanting to go there and post, that's their decision.
    Everyone would respect that.
    IF this is the case, even in this case they MUST open the debate up for the very people they keep criticising for years. As a matter of fairness. This is at least my point of view, even if criticised people (theoretically) would not actually join the debate.

    But the way they handle it on that board, that the ones willing to debate are seperated out the moment they are discovered...
    that's just the wrong way to lead a discussion.


    It's just shameful.

    EDITED for clarity
     
    #6 thomas t, Jan 16, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
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  7. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    Separating into echo chambers constructed by rigid beliefs is part of our problem.

    One of the nice things about RF is that people who I think are very very wrong in their beliefs are exposed to mine and so I hold out a minor amount of hope for them.

    I'm sure they feel the same about my degenerate utterly wrong and dangerous ideas. ;)
     
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  8. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Haven't you already made a post on this subject?
     
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  9. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    That is big. That's very big. It sounds very lucrative, and they probably can't afford to let people get too controversial. They'd be risking it if they let people go on there making Christians feel naked or in some way doubtful about passionate subjects.

    Marriage is a very passionate subject. I think people (Christians included) are prone to confuse natural connections with spiritual ones. As a child I imagined that the love of my family was supernatural, but it was natural. I think I have seen evidence that people consider many natural connections to be spiritual when they are practical, but they are passionate about it.
     
  10. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    That’s a fair point.
    Ideally I would think any reasonable person would want to seek out opposing views. I’m not always great at that myself. But I think on the whole, when I’m not being a stubborn jerk just looking to be right, I find myself learning from the “opposing side.” Granted I will probably still be a jerk and argue back. But I usually will have learnt something in the process. And learning is always good, right?
    Though being on a board that is hostile to such debates or discussions would be discouraging to a person, I suppose

    RF seems fairly decent in that regard. Whenever I see a thread I vehemently disagree with I sigh and see if it’s worth responding to. But I’m happy such threads exist all the same
     
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  11. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    Trolling.
     
  12. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    Remember that the internet is not protected by free speech laws or the First Amendment.
     
  13. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Defending one's self against shameful slander is not trolling.
     
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  14. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    yes, of course.
    But Christians should not only meet with the standards of common law.
    Christians should aim for peace at I see it.
    Recently, @Evangelicalhumanist wrote a good article about the political divide in America. "Information Ecosystems" and the political divide

    This site I mentioned in the OP, is only contributing to it if they by and large shun the other opinion. As a consequence, the users of this site tend to overlink to their right-leaning news channels, and since often there doesn't seem to be anyone disagreeing, they feel confirmed in what they think. Regardless of whether the source did or did not accurately provide the infirmation needed to evaluate the topic at hand.
    This is how fake news and radical attitudes get spread more and more and the political divide in America becomes deeper and deeper.
    And the Christian board playing a role in reinforcing the divide.

    Of course, fake news and radical attitudes can be found on left-wing news channels as well, I'm not saying they only exist on Fox News and such.
     
    #14 thomas t, Jan 17, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
  15. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    ^^^This^^^
     
  16. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    Read the post I was responding to. It doesn’t say anything about Christians slandering Hindus, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims and those believers defending their beliefs. But people do go to forums just to stir up trouble. On a Hindu forum I and a couple other RF Hindus frequent, we get Christians coming in challenging our beliefs. Not asking for learning’s sake, but to troll and proselytize.
     
  17. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    ---------------------

    They say they don’t want to have false doctrine in the main section. They don’t want a teenager who still needs a good basis in faith to read statements like “Jesus died in vain” or "Jesus's death on the cross is just a metaphor".

    They want a good doctrine. ;)

    However, this is about gay rights and gay rights have nothing to do with doctrine. But still, other people can’t reply. In my opinion there is absolutely no valid reason to keep the other opinion out of a political debate.

    In my opinion, group related enmity, such as homophobia in this case, is like a highly explosive chemical: it needs to be handled with care.

    The way it’s being handled right now… people with radical anti-gay opinions can spread homophobic slurs like this without anybody being there willing to challenge this.
    But these slurs essentially are fear mongering, as I see it, and this can do severe damage to the group.
     
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  18. night912

    night912 Well-Known Member

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    That's usually how it is. The shepherd will advertise it as free range sheeps. So he builds fences surrounding his flock of sheeps and tells everyone that it's needed to keep the wolves out. But the actual purpose is to prevent the sheeps from wandering away.
     
  19. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    With the exception that I think they have made doctrine out of homophobic issues, I agree 110% with you. Nice job!
     
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  20. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    Recently, I had another look into another major Christian discussion board that disallows any posts "promoting homosexuality".
    Sadly, you can't expect those people with a positive attitude towards this sexual orientation to join threads about homosexuality then.
    So right from the start, the discussion is one-sided, in my opinion.
    When it comes to debating facts... this seems to be particularly detrimental to the quality of the information that's getting passed off as facts there.
    Moreover, the latest debate happened in a subsection in which atheists cannot post: a Christians Only subsection.

    So lets see what they consider as "fact" in a discussion.

    One debater came up with the remark that sex attraction was caused by "unhealed wounds" in her case.
    Another poster agreed that this has been his "observation", too.
    In referring to the first debater, another poster concluded that, since he or she "did early childhood education and did some reading into how children develop their identity; sexually, gender and just general identity in the community.
    Boys in particular are more 'fragile' in terms of identity. If the main role models are abusive or non supportive so that the child can't identify with them there is a high chance they will grow-up with some form of dysfunction
    ."
    ... however, no source was given.
    This post remained unchallenged since it was among the last ones in that thread.

    So this is how "facts" are established in this major Christian discussion boards with regard to homosexuality, it seems:
    no sources, no genuine debate, just unsubstanciated remarks.

    It's rumor spreading and it's a shame, I think.
     
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