Christianity vs Baha'i

[InvestigateTruth]

Where in the NT does it teach that?

Where it says, Jesus was born from Mary.

So if Jesus didn't exist prior to being born does that also go for Baha'u'llah?

Yes, the individuality or the physical body of Bahaullah did not exist prior to His birth.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Again, skips over Islam and Muslims and The Bab and the Babi's? Things get interpreted to fit whatever works best for Baha'is.

Yes, it does skip over the Bab and Muhammad, because the Bible prophecies in this case is talking about a time when the Glory fo God comes. Glory in Arabic is Baha. Bahaullah is Glory of God.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Jesus was legally a descendant of Jesse through his step father Joseph.

Agreed. But the OT, qualifies a person who is biologically a descendant of Jesse, not just legally. "Out of Jesse" means biologically and literally a descendant of Jesse, in the same way that a branch grows from a tree. There has to be a literal connection.

 

[Skywalker]

We already talked about many of them. But for example, where in OT says, "a Rod comes Out of Jesse". This is Bahaullah, not Jesus.
A careful reading of OT, tells us, there are two time prophecies. One time is earlier. The other prophecies are for the Time of End, when Glory of the God of Israel coming from the east. The Lord of Hosts. A child to be born whose name is Everlasting Father, Wonderful.... just to name a few.

Jesus was a rod out of Jesse because he was legally his descendant. Two time prophecies refer to the two comings of Jesus. The glory of God coming from the East is a reference to Jesus coming on the clouds. Jesus was the everlasting Father because someone's son can also be a Father.

 

[Skywalker]

How could you tell?

What else could Jesus have been referring to? Jesus ascended to heaven in Acts. Since the Old Testament mentions two advents of the Messiah that explanation is most probable.

 

[Skywalker]

Agreed. But the OT, qualifies a person who is biologically a descendant of Jesse, not just legally. "Out of Jesse" means biologically and literally a descendant of Jesse, in the same way that a branch grows from a tree. There has to be a literal connection.

The Old Testament doesn't specifically mention that the Messiah was going to be biologically a descendant of Jesse. Where in the Hebrew does it mention the Messiah being biologically and literally a descendant of Jesse? If I had kids and they adopted a kid or married someone with a kid he would still be a part of my family.

 

[Skywalker]

That is another meaning of the verse, as verses can have many meanings.

What else do you think Jesus could have been referring to?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Jesus was referring to knowing God is about having a relationship with God not about wordly authority. The apostles were not his officers.

Jesus had no worldly authority, except for a statement made about Peter and the Church, whereas Baha'u'llah left a written Covenant where an Administrative order has been revealed.

Regards Tony

 

[Skywalker]

Jesus had no worldly authority, except for a statement made about Peter and the Church, whereas Baha'u'llah left a written Covenant where an Administrative order has been revealed.

Regards Tony

Jesus had no worldly authority in this dispensation but that doesn't necessarily mean that he won't have worldly authority when he returns.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Jesus had no worldly authority in this dispensation but that doesn't necessarily mean that he won't have worldly authority when he returns.

No Messengers have wanted and will want worldly authority.

They give that to man, the Bible is clear on that.

This OP moves miles to fast. It has gone pages in the last couple of days.

Regards Tony

 

[Skywalker]

No Messengers have wanted and will want worldly authority.

They give that to man, the Bible is clear on that.

This OP moves miles to fast. It has gone pages in the last couple of days.

Regards Tony

I don't think Jesus teaching us how to live has to do with why He will come again. What worldly authority did Jesus give to man? Jesus gave his apostles the ability to do miracles to show he was God and He will give people authority to rule over the Millennium but other than that Jesus didn't give authority to man. The kingdom of God is primarily spiritual.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The Old Testament doesn't specifically mention that the Messiah was going to be biologically a descendant of Jesse. Where in the Hebrew does it mention the Messiah being biologically and literally a descendant of Jesse?

"And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots" Isaiah

According to this verse in Isaiah, There supposed to be a connection just like a tree with its branches and its roots.
A branch is biologically related to its roots, so must be the Promised One be related to Jesse in the same way.

If I had kids and they adopted a kid or married someone with a kid he would still be a part of my family.

Yes, if you adopted a kid, he would still be part of your family. But would you still say this kid came "out of me" Just as a branch from my root?

 

[Skywalker]

"And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots" Isaiah

According to this verse in Isaiah, There supposed to be a connection just like a tree with its branches and its roots.
A branch is biologically related to its roots, so must be the Promised One be related to Jesse in the same way.



Yes, if you adopted a kid, he would still be part of your family. But would you still say this kid came "out of me" Just as a branch from my root?

Do the words branch, root, and rod in Hebrew, have connotations of being a biological descendant? I wouldn't say that they are a branch from my root even if they were biologically related to me.

 

[Skywalker]

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

But Jesus did not say the temple was His body, someone else said that about Him.

Jesus was talking about himself not the temple. Why would the Jewish authorities say that the temple was the body of Jesus?

 

[Skywalker]

2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

No, that is just your interpretation of the verse. Raise us up does not say anything about a body being raised up.

That verse in Hosea is a messianic prophecy.

 

[Skywalker]

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that world peace would be established as soon as the Messiah came.

It doesn't mention the minute detail of as soon as Jesus comes but it's insinuated.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Do the words branch, root, and rod in Hebrew, have connotations of being a biological descendant? I wouldn't say that they are a branch from my root even if they were biologically related to me.

It is an analogy. If someone is speaking with analogy, they can use Tree as an analogy. For example two biologically brothers, can be said they are from the same root. Or branches of the same tree, just as how a tree have different branches. Hence, this is called Family Tree.

And actually we can tell from the Bible, the Jews expected a Messiah be a descendant of Jesse. And this was one the reasons they rejected Jesus.

 

[Skywalker]

It is an analogy. If someone is speaking with analogy, they can use Tree as an analogy. For example two biologically brothers, can be said they are from the same root. Or branches of the same tree, just as how a tree have different branches. Hence, this is called Family Tree.

And actually we can tell from the Bible, the Jews expected a Messiah be a descendant of Jesse. And this was one the reasons they rejected Jesus.

Do you think step siblings or adopted siblings are ever on family trees? One time when talking about my cousin someone said that he's my only real reason the rest are all girls. He didn't literally mean a girl cousin isn't a real cousin but you can't spend the same amount of time with a girl cousin like you would with a guy cousin. In the same way, Jesus being a descendant of Jesse is never specifically stated to be biologically.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Do you think step siblings or adopted siblings are ever on family trees? One time when talking about my cousin someone said that he's my only real reason the rest are all girls. He didn't literally mean a girl cousin isn't a real cousin but you can't spend the same amount of time with a girl cousin like you would with a guy cousin. In the same way, Jesus being a descendant of Jesse is never specifically stated to be biologically.

Modern days is different than old times.

 

[Skywalker]

Modern days is different than old times.

Do you think that that verse is a reference to family trees? I don't think that Jewish family trees are much different from any other family tree. In old times people married their cousins. But there are similarities between modern and old times.