Christianity vs Baha'i

[TransmutingSoul]

Well, I think the Lamb is the one it says will return. I think it at the very least implies that the Lamb is Jesus. I think Investigate Truth was the one that pointed out that the word used in Revelation for "Lamb" is different than the word used in the gospels. So he was saying the "Lamb that was slain" is The Bab. No Christian has come up with a reason why Revelation uses a different word. But still, in context, I think the "Lamb" is Jesus. But really, who really trusts the strange, strange vision of some guy that no one knows for sure which John it was? Plus, it had problems getting voted into the NT by the council of Christian leaders. That's why in that other thread I was going along with all religions are manmade.

I see all the Messengers are the Lamb, they are all sacraficed so that we may obtain unto the Truth God wants for us all.

The Story of the Bab parallels that of Christ for twice the time.

Regards Tony

 

[Nakosis]

It is hard for people to accept that the blame lays upon our own choices. That we are the Good or we are the Evil in those choices.

That is a God given gift.

Regards Tony

In the OT, a lot of actions seemed to have been commanded by God. This is what usually gets judged. How does the Baha'i generally feel about the OT?

 

[Redemptionsong]

This indeed shows the oneness of the Proohets/Messengers.

Stands to reason Jesus is trying to show people how He is One with all the Meseneges past as Christ the Holy Spirit.

Jesus also promised to return and has done so. Muhammad also taught the Oneness of the Messengers and the Bab and Baha'u'llah have now explained in great detail as to how they are One, how they are the 'Self of God', and Not God.

It is now possible, knowing who Christ is, to embrace Christ wherever that light shines forth from.

So we can embrace Noah, Abraham, Krishna, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah knowing that the Holy Spirit shines from them all. (To name but a few)

We can much more easily become One People on one planet under the One God.

Regards Tony

It sounds very cosy, but, IMHO, it's a deception.

The teachings of Muhammad, which I am familiar with, cannot be squared with the Bible. I know that this must also be true of Baha'u'llah and Bab because claims are made, on their behalf, that are clearly contradictory to the Bible.

The Bible gives us the creation of the first heaven and earth.
Genesis 1:1. 'In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.'
The Bible also gives us the end of this heaven and earth, and the beginning of a new heaven and earth.
Revelation 21:1. 'And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.'
Encapsulated within the covers of a Bible is the revelation of God from one heaven and earth to the next. Nothing of importance to salvation is missed. And nowhere in that revelation is any mention made of messengers such as Muhammad, Baha'u'llah or Bab. Had they been of any importance to God's revelation, they would have been mentioned. Instead, the whole Bible focuses on the coming of one person, JESUS CHRIST!

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But the whole concept of The Messiah is something made up by Jews. In the article I read it said that concept in not in the Torah. Then we have the other problem of where did these "prophecies" come from? All the different prophets, including Daniel, did they write their own book or did someone else write it? None of them were the manifestation. At best they were that lower type of prophet, which, other than Judaism, where are those types of prophets? But if those stories were written by others about a prophet, then how trustworthy is that? Because their are questions to there being three different writers of Isaiah and that Daniel was written at a much later time.

So possibly, we have writers saying a prophet said such and such about a Messiah. Then we have Rabbi's at a later time make those stories part of the Jewish Scripture and then, like you say, they interpret them... along with Christians and now Baha'is. Just like the "He" will come from Assyria versus "They" will come from Assyria. Jews say it is "They" meaning the Jews that were taken away captive will return to Israel. So after all of this is argued out, I think what you say is best... The prophecies are not the main proof. For Baha'is they are the icing. For others, they are not credible proof of anything and can be argued to mean something different.

Baha'u'llah makes it clear that Isaiah and Daniel, to name a couple, wrote of this Message.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In the OT, a lot of actions seemed to have been commanded by God. This is what usually gets judged. How does the Baha'i generally feel about the OT?

I see it is God telling us of the consequences of not accepting the Message. That our choices are tied into God's given Law.

Regards Tony

 

[Redemptionsong]

That is exactly the way it does work.

The Bread, the Wine and Fire of the Spirit is partaken of our heart.

Outward symbols and flesh bodies are not needed when one is born into the Spirit that Was, Is and Will be Jesus the Christ.

Jesus said He had much more to say unto us and that the Spirit of Truth would return to guide us unto all truth.

Regards Tony

Why do you need Baha'u'llah if you have the Spirit of truth within you?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why do you need Baha'u'llah if you have the Spirit of truth within you?

Baha'u'llah is Christ, The Glory of God returned as the Father.

I could ask why do you not need the Glory of God, the Father? It is what Christians await.

I am not whole without all the Messengers

Regards Tony

 

[Skywalker]

I see all the Messengers are the Lamb, they are all sacraficed so that we may obtain unto the Truth God wants for us all.

The Story of the Bab parallels that of Christ for twice the time.

Regards Tony

The teachings about who God is in the story of Bab doesn't parallel that of Christ. The Baha'i Faith and Salvation | CARM.org

The Baha'i Faith and Salvation
Baha’i Viewpoint

Baha’is do not believe that salvation is a free gift of God. Salvation is seen as collaboration between God and man. This collaboration is seen as being initiated by God, but it is one that man must participate in. Salvation is not seen as a one-time event, but it is seen as a process that involves both the actions of God and the individual.

Biblical Viewpoint
The first thing that we must do is define salvation. Salvation is defined as: “being saved from righteous judgment of God upon the sinner.” We must also understand that we do not work for our salvation at all, it is a free gift from God. Ephesians 2:8-10 states, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” As Christians we believe that we are not saved by our good works, but that we are saved in order to do good works. Our good works come after our salvation.

How is someone saved? We first must understand that all of us are sinners. Romans 3:23 says, “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” Our sin separates us from God. Isaiah 59:2 says, “But your iniquities (sin) have made a separation between you and your God. And your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He does not hear.” When one has a job and works, they have a wage that they are paid. Our wage for sin is death. Romans 6:23 says: “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” In order to be saved from your sins, you must put your trust in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ for your salvation. Romans 10:9-10 says, “That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.” We must also understand that we cannot be saved outside of faith in Jesus Christ. John 14:6 says, “Jesus said to him, ‘I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father; but through Me.’” Acts 4:12 says, "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved.”

 

[Nakosis]

I see it is God telling us of the consequences of not accepting the Message. That our choices are tied into God's given Law.

Regards Tony

Is the condoning of terrorism one of those consequences?

For example, killing the firstborn sons of Egypt?
Or when God commands the Israelites to "show no mercy" to other tribes in Deut 7?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Quoted from carm.org. Jesus' Three Offices: Prophet, Priest, and King | CARM.org
Jesus is first and foremost God, not a prophet.

Then why Jesus said, no true prophet is honored in his homeland

 

[Skywalker]

Then why Jesus said, no true prophet is honored in his homeland

Wierd post deleted.

 

[Skywalker]

Is the condoning of terrorism one of those consequences?

For example, killing the firstborn sons of Egypt?
Or when God commands the Israelites to "show no mercy" to other tribes in Deut 7?

God gave the Egyptians an offer of mercy.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The teachings about who God is in the story of Bab doesn't parallel that of Christ. Jesus is the Lamb. The Baha'i Faith and Salvation | CARM.org

Sorry, I see it does and provable.

Regards Tony

 

[Nakosis]

God gave the Egyptians an offer of mercy.

Can you provide a quote or link?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Is the condoning of terrorism one of those consequences?

For example, killing the firstborn sons of Egypt?
Or when God commands the Israelites to "show no mercy" to other tribes in Deut 7?

It was warned against, the consequences of our rejection.

God allows our free will. There is more to life than this world and God punishes injustice and looks after those that are treated unjustly.

We are just yet to see how deep that Love is.

Regards Tony

 

[Skywalker]

Sorry, I see it does and provable.

Regards Tony

Wierd post deleted.

 

[Nakosis]

It was warned against, the consequences of our rejection.

God allows our free will. There is more to life than this world and God punishes injustice and looks after those that are treated unjustly.

We are just yet to see how deep that Love is.

Regards Tony

Justified perhaps but still an act of terrorism. Just from the POV that one could see the Hebrew God as employing acts of terrorism.

 

[Redemptionsong]

" Jesus said. 'That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.' "

Jesus did not say it, it is a third person claim that Jesus said it. Right, please?

Regards

I believe Jesus did say it. We are told that the scriptures are 'God breathed' and to be trusted.
Check out the prophecies l posted!

 

[Skywalker]

Justified perhaps but still an act of terrorism. Just from the POV that one could see the Hebrew God as employing acts of terrorism.

Wierd post deleted.

 

[CG Didymus]

The Bible has not been corrupted. The apostles saw Jesus after He ressurected. Multiple people dont hallucinate the same thing. Jesus is God. He had the role of Prophet, Priest, and King, but He is not just a prophet-He is the Savior. Has the Bible been corrupted, altered, edited, revised, or tampered with? | GotQuestions.org

Well, unfortunately, that's not what Baha'is believe. They can show you beautiful poetic verses from Baha'u'llah and others that say how wonderful the Bible and Jesus are. But then, Baha'u'llah says that the Bible is wrong. The Bible says Ishmael, not Isaac, was taken by Abraham to be sacrificed? And why would this be important to Baha'is? When do they say this change happened? Why does the NT support that Isaac was the one, which makes them guilty also of perpetuating the supposed lie?

That's why I think it would have been easier and better for Baha'u'llah just to say that the whole Bible is man's attempt at understanding and explaining God, but that they got it all wrong. But, actually, that's exactly what they do. Creation? Wrong. The flood? Wrong. Little things like the Sun stopping in the sky, walking on water, parting rivers and the seas, raising the dead, turning a cane into a snake... all, if believed to be literally true are wrong? Satan? Wrong. Jesus' resurrection and ascension? Wrong. But the "immaculacy" of Mary and the virgin birth right? That I don't understand. Why make that, of all things, literally true? But all that other stuff is nothing major... it's just a different interpretation. Yes, a different interpretation that makes all those things fictional. Which makes the Bible, essentially, a work of fiction... maybe... maybe... based on some actual characters and events.

And lots of us are cheering them... "Yes, yes, we knew it was a bunch of made up lies." But the problem is... lots of us reject them too. A big reason for me is they say Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus are manifestations. And they use verse after verse as prophecies about their guy, Baha'u'llah. Why? The characters were real but the stories about them fictional? The things about the prophets, like being thrown into a lion's den and not being eaten and having their friends cast into a furnace and not getting burned, were fictional? But their prophecies were true? Way too much picking and choosing going on.

 

[Skywalker]

Can you provide a quote or link?

Quoted from carm.org. What type of God would kill the firstborn of Egypt? | CARM.org

What type of God would kill the firstborn of Egypt?
Context is everything in biblical interpretation. The ancient Egyptians served many false gods. The Plagues that were set upon the people of Egypt were relative to the gods of the land demonstrating that God was the true God and that their gods were weak, ineffective, and false. So when God killed the firstborn of Egypt, he was executing the wicked, punishing them for their oppression of his people, and ultimately laying the foundation for the arrival of the Messiah who hundreds of years later, would redeem mankind by his sacrifice on the cross.

1. Turning the Nile to blood, Exodus 7:14-25. Isis was the Egyptian god of the Nile. Khnum was the guardian of the Nile.
2. Frogs, Exodus 8:1-5. Heget was the goddess of birth and had the head of a frog.
3. Gnats, Exodus 8:16-19. Set was the god of the desert.
4. Flies, Exodus 8:20-32. Re was the sun god. Uatchit was a god possibly represented by the fly.
5. Death of Livestock, Exodus 9:1-7. Hathor, goddess with a cow's head. Apis was the bull god.
6. Boils, Exodus 9:8-12. Sekmet, goddess that had power over disease. Sunu, the god of pestilence.
7. Hail, Exodus 9:13-35. Nut, the goddess of the sky. Set, god of storms.
8. Locusts, Exodus 10:1-20. Osiris, god of crops.
9. Darkness, Exodus 10:21-29. Re, the sun god. Horus, a sun god. Hathor, sky goddess.
10. Death of firstborn, Exodus 11:1 - 12:30. Min, god of reproduction. Isis, goddess who protected children. Pharaoh, considered a god.1

The death of the first-born (Exodus 12:29) was not only a final blow to Pharaoh and all of Egypt demonstrating the powerlessness of Pharaoh and the truth of God's Word, but also it was used as a prophetic typology. In the account of the death of the first-born, all who had the blood of a lamb placed on their doorposts would escape the judgment of God on the households. This blood on the doorpost was representative of the actual blood of Christ who is called the Lamb of God. Therefore, God allowed the first-born to be killed as a judgment upon Pharaoh as a proof of God's superiority and as a prophetic representation of the death of His Son, Jesus. It was a representation of the gospel message that the true firstborn of God who would later die for the sins of the world, and that all who are covered by the blood of Christ will be saved from their bondage to sin. It does not indicate that God is mean--especially if we realize that all have sinned (Rom. 3:23). It illustrates that God was arranging history to bear witness to the greatest act of love: the crucifixion.