Christian or Pretending to be Christian?

[sun rise]

@Windwalker basically wrote what I was thinking. And I loved the musician analogy.

One point that struck me when I first read it and I remember now is Abraham Lincoln's comment about the Bible and slavery. Of course I'm not Lincoln and do judge, but the comment back then about slave holders being Christian applies today as well:

Both read the same Bible, and pray to the same God; and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces; but let us judge not that we be not judged.

 

[Vee]

The specific question is, is the MyPillow guy a Christian? Or is he merely pretending to be a Christian?

The thing about talking, is that it's free, and since it's free people just go out there and blah, blah, blah... It doesn't mean there is any dept or meaning behind their words. All that matters is that someone gives them attention.
Does that guy really think he's a christian? Maybe. Does his behavior match his words? That's a different question.

 

[stvdv]

IMO:

At any rate, I watched the whole video and it struck me in several different ways, but the one way I'd like to discuss here involves the MyPillow guy's claim that he is not only a Christian, but that Jesus guides his actions: "I do what Jesus would have me do".

If he says so, why not? Many Christians say "I do what Jesus would have me to do". That is between him and Jesus. I only need to worry about stvdv and Jesus.

Please take a look at the video. It's long, but it sure can be fascinating! The specific question is, is the MyPillow guy a Christian? Or is he merely pretending to be a Christian?

I see no reason to doubt him saying "I am a Christian". From this YouTube I conclude that Lindell acted more Christian-like than the interviewer

Of course I now will check if my first impression (never saw Cooper before, nor Lindell). And Google gave me:
a) "Lindell stated that he achieved sobriety through prayer in 2009 and has been clean since then".
b) During Holy Week, Anderson Cooper 360 devoted two programs purporting to define “What Is a Christian?” – but the series turned out to be a backhanded swipe at Christianity

*) I hope that above links are not fake news


Seeing the above, my decision about being Christian or not:
1) I decide to give Lindell the benefit of the doubt (doubt being, that I can't know for sure, by just seeing one interview+google hit)
2) Nowadays many people pretend in many ways. So, unless he is a Saint, he might do some pretending as well
3) Above point a) works in his favor, to believe he might be a Christian
4) I decide to give Cooper not the benefit of the doubt (He behaves less Christian-like than Lindell)
5) Above point b) works not in his favor; he does not behave Christian-like

The more general, and I think by far the more important questions are: What makes someone a Christian? And is Christianity itself to be defined by how Christians themselves behave? Or is it to be defined by how they ought to behave according to some source or authority such as a tradition, the Bible, their clergy, the majority of self-identifying Christians, etc.?

Good question, my thoughts on this are:
You will probably never get the real answer to this, unless you speak to Jesus, or more accurately, unless you listen if Jesus tells you

For me it is simple though, my Master explained to me in detail, what a good devotee of God minimum requirements are
I can only speak for myself: I have not managed yet, to live up to the standards my Master told me
Hence I would never advise others to take my Guru as their Guru

To answer your question: A real Christian is the one who lives his life in such a way that would get approval of Jesus

 

[Subduction Zone]

I see no reason to doubt him saying "I am a Christian". From this YouTube I conclude that Lindell acted more Christian-like than the interviewer

How do you conclude that? What makes you think that Lindell is more "Christian" than Cooper?

As to his supposed attack on Christianity I could only find a very unreliable source that made that claim:

Newsbusters - Media Bias Fact Check

Do you have a valid source that can back that up? One thing that you should remember when it comes to the internet. One can find sources that support almost any claim. One has to be very careful not to use extremely biased soruces.

 

[stvdv]

How do you conclude that? What makes you think that Lindell is more "Christian" than Cooper?

As to his supposed attack on Christianity I could only find a very unreliable source that made that claim:

Newsbusters - Media Bias Fact Check

Do you have a valid source that can back that up? One thing that you should remember when it comes to the internet. One can find sources that support almost any claim. One has to be very careful not to use extremely biased soruces.

Thanks for the feedback

I updated my reply, and added the 2 links: a) + b)..........(so you can now click on them, and the page opens)
And I added that I hope it's not fake news

Note: I did not say that Lindell is more Christian than Cooper, but that Lindell acted more Christian than Cooper in my opinion
Note: IF you find proof my link is fake news, please let me know, then I can update my post (I don't want to put extra fake news on RF

 

[Orbit]

"By their fruits you shall know them". --Jesus
Still good advice.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Thanks for the feedback

I updated my reply, and added the 2 links: a) + b)..........(so you can now click on them, and the page opens)
And I added that I hope it's not fake news

Note: I did not say that Lindell is more Christian than Cooper, but that Lindell acted more Christian than Cooper in my opinion
Note: IF you find proof my link is fake news, please let me know, then I can update my post (I don't want to put extra fake news on RF

Your source is no good. For example they make the mistake of thinking that slaps at creationists are slaps at Christianity. Tell me, if someone attacks Flat Earthers is that an attack on Christianity? The difference between creationists and Flat Earthers is only a very small matter of degree. Here is a quote from the article that shows that your source does not understand this:

"The April 4 program, “God, Faith, and Hard Science,” discussed creationism, attempted to disprove Biblical miracles, and inquired into the power of prayer. A segment on global warming didn't really fit in with the others and apparently was included just to slam conservative Christian leaders. To his credit, Cooper did interview a leading scientist whose Christian faith was inspired by his scientific discoveries."

That indicates that Cooper did not slap at Christianity, at best he only slapped at some of the extremists of Christianity. Does your source have anything of substance? Do they have anything that can support their claims or is it merely a worthless hit piece?

 

[Subduction Zone]

@stvdv , Cooper was angry with Lindell because he was using his reputation to push snake oil. Lindell invested in a company that makes an apparently worthless product and then touted it using his various resources. That is an attempt to profiteer off of the pain of others. Jesus would not have approved. Lindell claimed "studies" but when asked for specifics he could not name any. He only declared that they are out there. The Corona virus is a threat to quite a few people and using it to profit from and potentially harm others is the very opposite of what a Christian would do.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

The more general, and I think by far the more important questions are: What makes someone a Christian? And is Christianity itself to be defined by how Christians themselves behave? Or is it to be defined by how they ought to behave according to some source or authority such as a tradition, the Bible, their clergy, the majority of self-identifying Christians, etc.?

Look, I'm not interested in offending anybody, but these things start to get at the crux of why I search for something a little deeper than Christianity. The fact is, things are better for me, to us, when they are plain, and out in the open. I am not interested in passages that could give you an excuse for a kind of moral ala carte. In other words, declare what you are, and why you do it. You give yourself, in my opinion, the freedom and ownership of what you choose to do, insofar as you have the ability to do anything. Mercy in my opinion, resides in the fact that a lot of behavior seems to have scientific causation. But to add to that the possibility of divine excuse, is not part of the excuse that I make allowance for, for myself. I don't see it as expedient ; if you are a 'glutton and drunkard,' do that, but why make that into a byproduct of wisdom? If you are amorous and want to eschew monogamy, go for it, but don't tattoo yourself with a cross and make marriage vows. Or if you 'behave as the pagans' to some degree, to convert them , why do you wear something over your real values, Paul ?

 

[stvdv]

@stvdv , Cooper was angry with Lindell because he was using his reputation to push snake oil. Lindell invested in a company that makes an apparently worthless product and then touted it using his various resources. That is an attempt to profiteer off of the pain of others. Jesus would not have approved. Lindell claimed "studies" but when asked for specifics he could not name any. He only declared that they are out there. The Corona virus is a threat to quite a few people and using it to profit from and potentially harm others is the very opposite of what a Christian would do.

At least he asked if he could come back at the show with Cooper, after his product was approved.

So, it seems soon we will know, if he was lying or not. IF he does not come back on the show THEN we know he was just pretending about it.

Nowadays there is so much fake news, and people lie so easily, that it impossible to know when it's the truth.

I decided to just note down what someone says (if I really need to know), and later on I check it. That works best for me. I am okay with waiting a few month to get my answer. Same with Corona vaccine. So many stories for and against (and many different vaccines). So, I just wait and let others try it out. And within 6-12 month, maybe 1 billion people have been vaccinated, and by then we have a better picture whether it's working or not.

Note: And from now on, I will add such a note to my post (maybe it's fake news; check for yourself)

 

[Kenny]

The more general, and I think by far the more important questions are: What makes someone a Christian? And is Christianity itself to be defined by how Christians themselves behave? Or is it to be defined by how they ought to behave according to some source or authority such as a tradition, the Bible, their clergy, the majority of self-identifying Christians, etc.?

What make someone a Christian? Basically, one who has given their lives to Jesus Christ and committed their lives to make Him Lord as they believed in the resurrection.

Is Christianity itself defined by how Christians themselves behave? Normally people do judge by what they see and act. However, technically, Christianity should be defined, not on how Christians behave, but rather on what the message Jesus gave.

There are different types of Christians:

There are children Christians (who don't know how to act - and mature Christians that do) -- Hebrews 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

There are children, young men and fathers - 1 John 2:12 - I am writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven for his name's sake. 13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men,

There are Christians who act like they are not Christians or as babies who poop and smell like it:1 For 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

And then, of course, there are those who say they are Christians, work among Christians, and has an outward appearance of a Christian... but aren't Christians. Matthew 7:15 - Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

So approach each one as required

 

[stvdv]

Your source is no good. For example they make the mistake of thinking that slaps at creationists are slaps at Christianity. Tell me, if someone attacks Flat Earthers is that an attack on Christianity? The difference between creationists and Flat Earthers is only a very small matter of degree. Here is a quote from the article that shows that your source does not understand this:

"The April 4 program, “God, Faith, and Hard Science,” discussed creationism, attempted to disprove Biblical miracles, and inquired into the power of prayer. A segment on global warming didn't really fit in with the others and apparently was included just to slam conservative Christian leaders. To his credit, Cooper did interview a leading scientist whose Christian faith was inspired by his scientific discoveries."

That indicates that Cooper did not slap at Christianity, at best he only slapped at some of the extremists of Christianity. Does your source have anything of substance? Do they have anything that can support their claims or is it merely a worthless hit piece?

IF the program is about "defining what a Christian is"

During Holy Week, Anderson Cooper 360 devoted two programs purporting to define “What Is a Christian?” – but the series turned out to be a backhanded swipe at Christianity.

THEN I see no use to prove that certain things are false in Christianity

IF you want to do that THEN do that in another program

That is my opinion on this. I see no need to prove the religion of others wrong. Some people feel this need, but I don't go with that. Defining what a Christian is, on the other hand, is an interesting topic. And "trying to prove the other's Faith wrong" does not belong in such a discussion

Some people want to have prove about things. Peer reviewed etc. I don't need that. I am fine that others need it. That is their opinion. Also with Corona vaccine or other remedies, they need not start to me about "peer reviewed". That is all bull. A good research takes at least a decade with medicine, preferably 2 decades, to see the impact after many years. They have not done that with Corona vaccine, hence those people should not criticize others who try out things

Again that is my opinion. You are free to have your opinion. You depend heavily on peer reviewed stuff. And I trust my self. So we will never agree on this. And that is fine with me. I don't want you to change. I just shared my opinion on the questions asked by @Sunstone in the OP, that is all.

I got negative vibes from Cooper, and not much from Lindell. Of course he can be a fake, but this I could not see from those 14 minutes. Time will tell

 

[Heyo]

The more general, and I think by far the more important questions are: What makes someone a Christian?

That question has already not been answered here: What Makes a Christian a Christian?

Let's face it, "Christian" is a word without meaning. Nobody knows what a Christian is, not even the Christians.

 

[Windwalker]

Nowadays there is so much fake news, and people lie so easily, that it impossible to know when it's the truth.

It is not impossible to know when it's the truth. Fact check things. Find multiple sources, and by all means recognize highly biased sources, such as far right religious group's who are anti-science and imagine the devil is behind it those who challenge their thinking in matters of not just science, but faith as well.

We have the tools and the reason enough to be able recognize when experts are speaking, and when snake oil salesmen are peddling magic as science. Anderson Cooper was not at all acting non-Christian to this conman.

To take a stand and ask for proof to support unfounded claims, is the duty of anyone who respects truth; something which Christianity is supposed to represent. Cooper in fact was the Christian, and the liar with his snakeoil, who lied, and lied and never gave evidence, that is non-Christian behavior. Asking someone to support a truth-claim, is Christian.

 

[stvdv]

Let's face it, "Christian" is a word without meaning

I disagree with this

Nobody knows what a Christian is, not even the Christians.

I disagree with this

 

[stvdv]

It is not impossible to know when it's the truth. Fact check things.

I said "we have to wait and see if his product works or not". Time will tell if his claim is true. That is the easiest and most accurate fact-check

 

[Revoltingest]

What make someone a Christian? Basically, one who has given their lives to Jesus Christ and committed their lives to make Him Lord as they believed in the resurrection.

Is Christianity itself defined by how Christians themselves behave? Normally people do judge by what they see and act. However, technically, Christianity should be defined, not on how Christians behave, but rather on what the message Jesus gave.

Hah!
That's what I thought.

 

[Windwalker]

I said "we have to wait and see if his product works or not". Time will tell if his claim is true. That is the easiest and most accurate fact-check

No it is not. It needs to follow standard scientific certification processes in order for it to be considered by safe and effective. There is no "time will tell argument". That's not how science or the health profession works.

What this product is, is in fact not proven anything scientifically. Anecdotal evidence, so and so claiming a miracle cure with it, is not evidence of anything. In fact, it has been disproved scientifically.

Read about it here:
Missouri Sues Televangelist Jim Bakker For Selling Fake Coronavirus Cure

 

[Subduction Zone]

At least he asked if he could come back at the show with Cooper, after his product was approved.

Yes, that is a typical tactic of scammers. It is all that is required to satisfy their true believers usually. Of course if there actually was a study he could have posted it any time since then. Why didn't he?

So, it seems soon we will know, if he was lying or not. IF he does not come back on the show THEN we know he was just pretending about it.

Nowadays there is so much fake news, and people lie so easily, that it impossible to know when it's the truth.

I decided to just note down what someone says (if I really need to know), and later on I check it. That works best for me. I am okay with waiting a few month to get my answer. Same with Corona vaccine. So many stories for and against (and many different vaccines). So, I just wait and let others try it out. And within 6-12 month, maybe 1 billion people have been vaccinated, and by then we have a better picture whether it's working or not.

Note: And from now on, I will add such a note to my post (maybe it's fake news; check for yourself)

I would not be so quick to throw out the claim of "fake news". Sometimes news stories are made with limited information. That does not necessarily make them "fake news". By his claims it is very clear that he is lying. You never claim to have studies if you cannot support that claim. He lied.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No it is not. It needs to follow standard scientific certification processes in order for it to be considered by safe and effective. There is no "time will tell argument". That's not how science or the health profession works.

What this product is, is in fact not proven anything scientifically. Anecdotal evidence, so and so claiming a miracle cure with it, is not evidence of anything. In fact, it has been disproved scientifically.

I would say that it is evidence that Lindell is pushing snake oil.