Christian or Pretending to be Christian?

[Kenny]

I think it's complicating it to wrap it up in concepts of metaphor, faith, and justification. This makes it into something roughly amorphous. Apparently things were so unclear that someone like Constantine, for example, would take it be a war religion, and start imbuing shields with Christian symbols straightaway. I think if you can draw that kind of thing out of a religious concept due to mistaken inference, then maybe the concepts in the religion weren't clear enough to tell you what not to do. Which should be pretty concerning, because I think it's better if one knows plainly what they are to do or not do

I view it as "people are people". They can use any ideology or philosophical belief system et al for their personal advantage or for the advantage of others.

It is not as complicated as one may think. Though there are nuances, it is basically "love God and love your neighbor".

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Depends on how nitpicky you want to be. A Christian who likes the Jesus who attacked people with a whip are “following Jesus “, just as people who like the pacifist Jesus are.

And that kind of thing strikes me as mercurial, not that there's anything wrong with struggling to find stability in one's personal world, but what was causing these swings in behavior. Was it his fate, or something innate to him, or a mixture of both. For religion surely should have emotion in consideration, but is this showing you how to deal with such things, or simply showing you the personal nature of Jesus. Should he be read as someone who vacillated between brooding and lashing out, or are those character traits irrelevant to take into consideration

 

[stvdv]

character traits

Need not be character traits

or are those character traits irrelevant to take into consideration

Yes

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I'm not understanding why it is "hiding behind metaphors" since metaphors helps understanding.

I like metaphors too sometimes, but I think maybe there are limits to what they can say. If it gets confusing, I'd rather jettison it to say something plainer. In Matthew 13 , Jesus actually does not seem to agree with your view there Ken. He says there, that the parables were basically acting as a barrier

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I view it as "people are people". They can use any ideology or philosophical belief system et al for their personal advantage or for the advantage of others.

It is not as complicated as one may think. Though there are nuances, it is basically "love God and love your neighbor".

Another problem I wanted to bring up, was that of the idea of a false prophet that comes in the future. If there is to be a false prophet when the world ends , and he supposedly gets some kind of significant following , doesn't this mean that things weren't naturally all that airtight in the theology ? Room had to be created for misinterpretation , theoretically, for a significant amount of people to end up following a false prophet

 

[Kenny]

I like metaphors too sometimes, but I think maybe there are limits to what they can say. If it gets confusing, I'd rather jettison it to say something plainer. In Matthew 13 , Jesus actually does not seem to agree with your view there Ken. He says there, that the parables were basically acting as a barrier

For those who really weren't seeking... yes and for that time.

But even when it was during that time sometimes Jesus is very direct:

Matt 22: 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

and sometimes his metaphors are too

Matthew 23:27
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

 

[Kenny]

Another problem I wanted to bring up, was that of the idea of a false prophet that comes in the future. If there is to be a false prophet when the world ends , and he supposedly gets some kind of significant following , doesn't this mean that things weren't naturally all that airtight in the theology ? Room had to be created for misinterpretation , theoretically, for a significant amount of people to end up following a false prophet

I don't think that it has to do with room for misinterpretation--although that could be part. Human traditions set as part of one's faith can set in that makes God word powerless, You can have people seeking miracles instead of God or, for that matter, you can say all the right things but your heart is still wrong.

I don't think it actually says that those who follow him are Christians, though it might be. If at the end people are crying for "peace... peace" - that pretty much can include anybody.

IMV

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Matt 22: 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Putting the love of God before the love of man could potentially be even more hairy though, couldn't it? It says in the bible that the aims of god are dissimilar to those of a man. This entity for example, apparently didn't take kindly to someone who accidentally tripped with the tabernacle, and would turn someone to salt for merely looking at a place she left. So what's happening with that, are we talking about judging the unintentional faults in the responses of the limbic system?

Matthew 23:27
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

That's a rather nightmarish vision there. Did the ancient Jews even have sepulchres though ?

I don't think it actually says that those who follow him are Christians, though it might be. If at the end people are crying for "peace... peace" - that pretty much can include anybody.

That is kind of interesting, I always assumed that it was talking about people who were misled in that kind of sense. You know, the language regarding the snake is that it is subtle , not obvious. Why would it then, not try to sneak into wearing something like Christianity?

 

[Kenny]

Putting the love of God before the love of man could potentially be even more hairy though, couldn't it? It says in the bible that the aims of god are dissimilar to those of a man. This entity for example, apparently didn't take kindly to someone who accidentally tripped with the tabernacle, and would turn someone to salt for merely looking at a place she left. So what's happening with that, are we talking about judging the unintentional faults in the responses of the limbic system?

I think everything has to be viewed in context for understanding and then, for Christians, we have to take into account the benefits of the "no greater love has a man than this, that he give his life for another" and the resulting benefits of said gift.

Intentional, unintentional and not knowing faults are all covered in the gift of life and the love that covers a multitude of sins.

That's a rather nightmarish vision there. Did the ancient Jews even have sepulchres though ?

LOL... yes it is and quite poignant in expression. And yes, in the time of Jesus they did have sepulchers.

That is kind of interesting, I always assumed that it was talking about people who were misled in that kind of sense. You know, the language regarding the snake is that it is subtle , not obvious. Why would it then, not try to sneak into wearing something like Christianity?

Not denying that the snake wouldn't try to sneak in something like Christianity since it mentions false prophets (which suggests that they look like Christians)

But since, if the prophecy is right, it will encompass a large portion of the world, I would believe that he also makes Jewish and Islamic people believe since they are also waiting for a Messiah.

 

[capumetu]

I was just curious enough to check out a video that popped up in my feed earlier, thinking I'd spend no more than a minute watching it.

As it turned out, my forecast was about as accurate as that time I first heard about genetic engineering and became so excited I took out a second mortgage to invest with a traveling band of professional toenail painters who had convinced me their plan to engineer designer house cats whose fur would glow in the dark like some jellyfish do was actually feasible. That was 30 years ago. Still waiting for them to pass through town and tell me how my capitalization of our enterprise panned out.

At any rate, I watched the whole video and it struck me in several different ways, but the one way I'd like to discuss here involves the MyPillow guy's claim that he is not only a Christian, but that Jesus guides his actions: "I do what Jesus would have me do".

Please take a look at the video. It's long, but it sure can be fascinating! The specific question is, is the MyPillow guy a Christian? Or is he merely pretending to be a Christian?

The more general, and I think by far the more important questions are: What makes someone a Christian? And is Christianity itself to be defined by how Christians themselves behave? Or is it to be defined by how they ought to behave according to some source or authority such as a tradition, the Bible, their clergy, the majority of self-identifying Christians, etc.?

Christians are identified in the Bible sir Jesus said they would be identified by their fruits Mat 7:20 The fruits are of course the obedience of Jesus' teachings. All Christians will worship the God that Jesus promoted exclusively Mat 4:10, they will gather together regularly Heb 10:24,25, and they will all preach and teach the Kingdom message Mat 24:14; 28:19,20. Of course they will further be identified by the outstanding love they have among themselves Jn 13:34,35

Hope that helps.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Christians are identified in the Bible sir Jesus said they would be identified by their fruits Mat 7:20 The fruits are of course the obedience of Jesus' teachings. All Christians will worship the God that Jesus promoted exclusively Mat 4:10, they will gather together regularly Heb 10:24,25, and they will all preach and teach the Kingdom message Mat 24:14; 28:19,20. Of course they will further be identified by the outstanding love they have among themselves Jn 13:34,35

Hope that helps.

That does not really help since it allows various different Christians to apply a "No True Scotsman" fallacy to those Christians that do not meet their particular interpretation of the Bible. Different Christian groups would have different claims of who was and who was not a Christian.