"Christian Nationalism is Not Christianity"

[PureX]

Keep in mind America has a problem with Evangelicals many other Western countries don't have. Like trying to dictate what's taught in schools, denying evolution, not letting gays adopt, and possessing a zeal to force a religious society that we only see elsewhere from those like the Taliban (and they're getting more military and more open to using violence in America according to a some recent studies).
Yes, there is a real divide here and it was created by and is entirely sustained by Evangelical Christians.

The reason all that is happening is because the news cameras will show up for it. And the idiots get to feel powerful and important with all those cameras pointed at them, and all those talking heads talking about them. Something they are not, normally. It's why they're always the loudest voices in the room even though they are only a small minority. The fringe zealots have discovered how to play the media game: the more outrageously they behave, the more the media will show up for it. And then they get to look and feel important.

It's not about God, It's all about ego, and control, and feeling important.

 

[ppp]

It's not about God, It's all about ego, and control, and feeling important

Those things are not mutually exclusive. Christian nationalism have been one of the features of Christianity for almost two millenia. Not meeting your ideal does not change that.

 

[PureX]

Those things are not mutually exclusive. Christian nationalism have been one of the features of Christianity for almost two millenia. Not meeting your ideal does not change that.

Oh, baloney!

 

[ppp]

Oh, baloney!

The history of the religion says that you are dead wrong.

 

[PureX]

The history of the religion says that you are dead wrong.

No, it doesn't. Politics, religion, commerce, it makes no difference. Humans want to be in control of their own destiny, and they try to gain this control over their destiny by controlling everything and everyone around them. Even the gods. This is human nature, not religion. It's human nature, not politics. In fact, religion and politics exist to try and help us mitigate this incessant desire for control. Though it fails and succumbs to that desire more often than not. And commerce, well, that's always been a Darwinian nightmare trying to happen.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The constitution has nothing in it about a right to kill your offspring.

Well that is a good thing. You do know that no one has proposed that, don't you? Or don't you understand the term "offspring" either?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I guess you are talking about democrats? Because they were the ones pushing slavery to continue.

That was in the past. And it was not accurate. The Democrats used to be the party of racial abuse and hatred. That is true. But for some odd reason things switched around in the 1960's. Perhaps it was the influence of JFK even after the died. He had a vision for America that included equality. And perhaps the Republicans abandoned there past support of civil rights because of that. It is hard to say why and how the Republicans went from being the good guys when it came to equality to the bad guys.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The reason all that is happening is because the news cameras will show up for it. And the idiots get to feel powerful and important with all those cameras pointed at them, and all those talking heads talking about them. Something they are not, normally. It's why they're always the loudest voices in the room even though they are only a small minority. The fringe zealots have discovered how to play the media game: the more outrageously they behave, the more the media will show up for it. And then they get to look and feel important.

It's not about God, It's all about ego, and control, and feeling important.

It's been going on before mainstream media as we know it (and certainly way before
the days of mass media).

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, a religion was spread that wasn't truly Christianity at all.
There was a reason they didn't want the common people to have the scriptures because they knew that they weren't following them.

Oh my God!! That is the funniest excuse ever! You are not following this so you can't read it. Now that makes all kinds of sense

Sorry, but your Christianity is just another religion. It is not much better or much worse than the rest of them.

 

[Kenny]

What would your term be for Christians that want to make America a Christian country where Christian beliefs are exalted above others and the barrier between Christianity and secular government is removed?

I really don't understand. It was a Christian country that allowed secular people and people of other religions to flourish ("Freedom of religion" - and no religion if you want). And quite biblical.

And what barrier of Christianity and Government.

 

[PureX]

It's been going on before mainstream media as we know it (and certainly way before
the days of mass media).

No, it hasn't. And just saying it doesn't make it so. The U. S. does not have a history of religious zealots having any significant influence in media or politics until Carl Rove and Rupert Murdock decided to turn them into an "issue" that they could exploit for their own gain. And they've been making them an "issue" ever since. It started with George Bush's early campaigns on the political side (with Rove as the manager), and as that picked up steam, and raised the ire of the public in general, Murdock realized it got consistent ratings. And he's been fanning those flames ever since. Together they've turned it into a kind of mini-cult of frightened, angry, disenfranchised ignoramuses willing to believe whatever swill their soothsayers feed them and spew it back out in front of the cameras for the ego-titillation. It really is mostly just an 'echo chamber' that magnifies it's own idiotic nonsense for fame and profit.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I really don't understand. It was a Christian country that allowed secular people and people of other religions to flourish ("Freedom of religion" - and no religion if you want). And quite biblical.

And what barrier of Christianity and Government.

Surely you don't mean the United States.

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..." John Adams

"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries." James Madison

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." Thomas Jefferson

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No, it hasn't. And just saying it doesn't make it so. The U. S. does not have a history of religious zealots having any significant influence in media or politics until Carl Rove and Rupert Murdock decided to turn them into an "issue" that they could exploit for their own gain. And they've been making them an "issue" ever since. It started with George Bush's early campaigns on the political side (with Rove as the manager), and as that picked up steam, and raised the ire of the public in general, Murdock realized it got consistent ratings. And he's been fanning those flames ever since. Together they've turned it into a kind of mini-cult of frightened, angry, disenfranchised ignoramuses willing to believe whatever swill their soothsayers feed them and spew it back out in front of the cameras for the ego-titillation. It really is mostly just an 'echo chamber' that magnifies it's own idiotic nonsense for fame and profit.

I'll assume you've never heard of Jonathan Edwards, and aren't too familiar with the American Great Revival around the mid-to-late 19th century. That event especially had tremendous influence on shaping Christianity in America into mess it is today (such as promoting Sola Scriptura, Biblical literalism, pre-Tribulation rapture, and superstitions of god punishing a nation for sin). If it weren't for these today there would be no controversy between science and Christianity, they wouldn't care about the gays and they'd wouldn't be so deluded as to think a plain reading of the Bible is all one needs in life, and they'd probably be less focused on hell, damnation and punishment.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I really don't understand. It was a Christian country that allowed secular people and people of other religions to flourish ("Freedom of religion" - and no religion if you want). And quite biblical.

And what barrier of Christianity and Government.

If any among you have known me and say to you lets go worship other gods you are kill them.
THAT is Biblical.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Surely you don't mean the United States.

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..." John Adams

"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries." James Madison

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." Thomas Jefferson

In fact by US law America is not a Christian nation. Let me quote from the US law:

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

All of the Senators that were in Congress at that time, only 23 out of 32, but enough to pass this law, signed it. This was passed on 1797 so it is a pretty good bet that these were almost all "founding fathers".

 

[Guitar's Cry]

In fact by US law America is not a Christian nation. Let me quote from the US law:

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

All of the Senators that were in Congress at that time, only 23 out of 32, but enough to pass this law, signed it. This was passed on 1797 so it is a pretty good bet that these were almost all "founding fathers".

Also, from Thomas Jefferson:

"Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion." The insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of it's protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and infidel of every denomination."

 

[ppp]

Christian nationalism [has] been one of the features of Christianity for almost two millennia. Not meeting your ideal does not change that.

The history of the religion says that you are dead wrong.

No, it doesn't.

Not a line that follows supports your denial. Hell, @PureX...not only do you fail to support your position on the topic,, but you don't even address the topic.

What follows are my responses to your series of completely unrelated statements.
I was bored.

Politics, religion, commerce, it makes no difference.

Makes no difference in what?

Humans want to be in control of their own destiny, and they try to gain this control over their destiny by controlling everything and everyone around them.

This claim bears the falsity of gross over-generalization, but let's see where you are going...

Even the gods.

There are no gods in evidence. But perhaps you mean what they believe to be gods. Another fascile over-genralization, but we'll roll with it for the moment;

This is human nature, not religion

False. Religion is human nature. So is politics. So are tribes, societies, bars, orgies and campfire stores.

It's human nature, not politics. I

Politics is human nature.

. In fact, religion and politics exist to try and help us mitigate this incessant desire for control.

False. They are specifically tools for control. Tools. Neither religion nor politics have a will. Neither tries to do anything They are nothing but tools.

Though it fails and succumbs to that desire more often than not.

Ibid.

And commerce, well, that's always been a Darwinian nightmare trying to happen.

There are no Darwinian nightmares. You are attempting to blur the distinction between is and ought. Either thru ignorance, or willful ignorance.

 

[Kenny]

Surely you don't mean the United States.

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..." John Adams

"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries." James Madison

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." Thomas Jefferson

We can find all types of quotes:

"The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty...

"Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System."
-Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, excerpt from a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

Founding father John Jay: “Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers”

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization not on the power of government, far from it. We have staked the whole of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the commandments of God. The future and success of America is not in this Constitution, but in the laws of God upon which this Constitution is founded.” ~ James Madison

“Before any man can be considered as a member of civil society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe. And to the same Divine Author of every good and perfect gift we are indebted for all those privileges and advantages, religious as well as civil, which are so richly enjoyed in this favored land.” ~ James Monroe

“Finally, it is my most fervent prayer to that Almighty Being before whom I now stand, and who has kept us in His hands from the infancy of our Republic unto the present day, that He will so overrule all my intentions and actions and inspire the hearts of my fellow-citizens that we may be preserved from dangers of all kinds and continue forever a united and happy people.” ~ Andrew Jackson

Very Christian IMV

 

[Kenny]

If any among you have known me and say to you lets go worship other gods you are kill them.
THAT is Biblical.

no. I'm in the NT. Sounds more like a personal issue IMO

 

[Shadow Wolf]

no. I'm in the NT. Sounds more like a personal issue IMO

It's not a personal issue. That is factually what the Bible says, and it's obviously fundamentally incompatible with the First Amendment.