"Christian Moms Group Condemns Hallmark Channel for Airing Lesbian Wedding Ad"

[Kangaroo Feathers]

You are assuming that I am an inheritor of privilege and that giving special privilege is an extension of equality.

No one's giving anyone "special privileges" but feel free to try again.

Any attempt to correct history will result in a disparity of opportunity for someone. It is illogical.

There you go crying about your loss of privilege being persecution, again.

What a ****ty argument. "Oh, trying to make things better for this oppressed underclass might result in a disparity of opportunity, so we have to keep them as an oppressed underclass for ever"

Not only is such an argument "illogical", but blatantly contrary to the teachings of Christ, so, you know, maybe stop it.

 

[Katzpur]

You think so? I want out.

If I never saw another snowflake in my life, it would be my dream come true. You couldn't find a much more perfect climate than San Diego. I'm sure there are drawbacks to living pretty much everywhere, though. For me, living in Mormon-central is not ideal. It's so "us versus them" here. I'd much prefer to have raised my kids in an area with greater diversity.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

If I never saw another snowflake in my life, it would be my dream come true. You couldn't find a much more perfect climate than San Diego. I'm sure there are drawbacks to living pretty much everywhere, though. For me, living in Mormon-central is not ideal. It's so "us versus them" here. I'd much prefer to have raised my kids in an area with greater diversity.

Diversity is overrated in my opinion. Especially when it's all everyone seems to be talking about.

There's just too many people here and everything is too expensive.

 

[Katzpur]

Diversity is overrated in my opinion. Especially when it's all everyone seems to be talking about.

There's just too many people here and everything is too expensive.

Diversity may be overrated if you've got plenty of it. If you have next to none of it, it's not.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Is it fun?

I enjoy it, and often have fun on the weekends.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You think so? I want out.

You'd might like Indiana. It's so conservative it makes Bakersfield seem bleeding heart liberal. You're certainly fit in there more than I ever could.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If I never saw another snowflake in my life, it would be my dream come true.

That's one thing I love about living in the Valley floor. It hasn't snowed in Bakersfield in 20 years. But you can still see it, up in the mountains where the beauty of it comes without the freezing cold and ice.

Diversity may be overrated if you've got plenty of it. If you have next to none of it, it's not.

Anymore, visiting people in Indiana, I can't help but notice how white, monolingual, and Christian it is. Also surprisingly racist after not being exposed to it for a good period of time. And I really don't think of Hispanics and Latinos as diversity anymore. It's also been a good long while since hearing Spanish induced any sort of feelings of home sickness/not in Kansas anymore.
So, yeah, diversity definitely does look different when it's all around and compared to when it's an oasis in the desert.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I don't believe that to be a fact.

Could you point out they way the system penalizes black people because of their race?

Black people are still far more likely to be arrested, tried and given longer sentences than white people. They are more likely to be denied loans, mortgages and properties, less likely to be promoted, more likely to be victims of police violence and are more likely to be victims of violence in general, and companies and local governments are less likely to spend money on development in majority black communities.

They don't. That's an exaggeration.

It really isn't.

Even if they did, if we are talking about Government "positions of power", then there would be nothing wrong with it. The People decide who represents them.

Are you seriously this naive?

That is not an example of "systematic oppression".

Yes it is. When you have a community that votes against black people because of either ingrained racism, or a governmental system that actively prevents black people from obtaining positions of power, that is systematic oppression.

Did you somehow forget that we had a black man as the President of the United States of America for eight years?

Nope. But does that mean that all of the other obvious signs of racial inequality no longer exist?

Also, Obama experienced a lot of racial prejudice in getting to where he got.

What advantages?

Being less likely to be a victim of violence, police targeting, public derision and abuse, more likely to be promoted, earn more money, be granted loans, mortgages and property.

What institutions are treating black people as inferior?

Practically all institutions.

If people are treating black people as inferior - that sucks - but that is not an example of "systematic oppression".

Yes it is.

100% serious.

Then you're 100% blind.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I believe that the Holy Spirit of God has testified to my heart and mind the truthfulness of these things.

It is an ineffable witness that is so powerful that it can cast out all fear and doubt.

Why do you believe that?

What do you mean by "care"?

I mean, why should it matter to others what your religious beliefs are, if they don't also believe them?
I mean, why should anyone accept your claims without any evidence indicating that they are accurate?

I do not believe that my God is any different than your God or anyone else's God. I believe there to be only one.

Why do you believe that?

I don't worship or believe in any god(s).

My belief is that God is both "cool" and "not cool" with her or any of us.

God is always "cool" with us to the extent that He has given us our freedom of choice and He honors the decisions that we make.

Our purpose for coming to this world is to be tested, but this test is not simply about getting all the right answers, but rather proving to God and ourselves who and what we are. And also who and what we want to be.

Who and what we decide to be in this world - God will honor and be "cool" with - but we can't expect to receive the same outcome as everyone else in the next life. We are all different and we will all receive different outcomes.

Unless, of course, we strive to do everything that God has commanded us because He has made promises to us all that if we are obedient to His commandments then we will receive certain outcomes in the life to come.

God is also always "not cool" with us because we commit sin and sin alienates us from God. He is a perfected Being and cannot dwell with imperfect Beings because those of a lower glory (or kingdom) cannot abide the glory of a higher kingdom. It is not possible.

However, because He loves us, He gave His Son as an eternal sacrifice for sin and if we but rely on the Son - His merits and grace - we can eventually overcome those things that separate us from God - sin and death - and eventually become perfected and live with Him again.

To be clear - no one achieves perfection in this life - no one can keep all of God's commandments in this life - but if we do our best and rely on the Lord Jesus Christ - it is possible to achieve perfection after this life.

So, to answer your question, it is my belief that God desires your cousin to be perfected through His Son - who was sent to the world as a sacrifice on her behalf - which would include learning of Him, following His example and giving up her sins.

God has also taught that sexual relations should only be between a man and woman who are legally and lawfully wedded as husband and wife.

Whatever your cousin decides to do with this information - God will honor and "be cool" with - but He cannot extend all the promised outcomes to her if she decides not to be obedient to His commands.

I am super glad that I am not going to judge anyone. I can't predict or assume anyone's eventual outcome after this life. All I can do is share what I believe to be true.

So your God is still not cool with my cousin's marriage, even though she's gone forth and multiplied, with you've told me is basically the only reason marriage exists in the first place.

That was my question, after all.

Your mother's inability to have children has no bearing on her willingness to be obedient to God's commands. That is all He asks. That we are willing to try our best to do as He commands.

My question was about my mother getting married after she no longer has the ability to "multiply after her kind." Because according to you, that's what you think God created marriage for.

All of us are filled with weaknesses. He asks us to be obedient despite our weaknesses. He claims that if we allow our weaknesses to humble us, thus causing us to rely on His strength - He will make our weaknesses into strengths.

I find your worldview to be troubling.

We should be making our own weaknesses into strengths. And we shouldn't be telling ourselves and our children that they are all born sick and weak and sinful and that the only way to "fix" ourselves is to give ourselves completely up to some higher authority that we must unquestioningly follow, rather than thinking for ourselves.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yeah, like I didn't notice you backpedaling. Moving the goal post.


At first you claimed that I only "mentioned" pedophilia (when I actually only "mentioned" an attraction to children).

What backpedal?

Pedophlia is a sexual attraction to children. So yes, you were talking about pedophilia.

That turned quickly into me "comparing" the two which everyone argued meant that I believed that raping children was the "same" or "similar" to having consensual sex with a same-sex partner.

However, that argument stagnated after I quoted where I said that I was not claiming that these weaknesses were "exactly the same".

You then said that all of your collective arguments that I compared the two were not arguments that they were "exactly the same", so I was still guilty of comparing them.

I pointed out that two things don't have to be "exactly the same" in order to compare them.
What you were comparing though, were different kinds of sexual attraction.

So, yeah, you don't even know what you are all agreeing and slapping each other on the back about. Most people here didn't even read my initial post.

This mass delusion began with you being perturbed that I mentioned an attraction to children in a discussion about inappropriate sexual attraction. You just don't like the fact that I believe homosexuality is sinful.

My "arguments" have been the same since the beginning, "I clearly stated that I was not comparing pedophilia to homosexuality."

Even if I was not as clear as I believed myself to be, you'd think everyone on this thread would know now that I don't believe pedophilia and homosexuality are the same or similar after all the time I've dedicated to claiming thus.

However, since you are all unreasonable and knee-deep in your mass delusion - you keep moving the goal posts and misrepresenting my beliefs.

Yeah, I brought it up to a guy who believes that I should be arrested, assaulted or killed for sharing my opinion.

Sounds like a "Hitler-move" to me.

If I say, "I am not comparing white supremacists to Hitler" and then go on to do just that, it doesn't matter what I stated at the beginning if, in fact, I went on to make the comparison.

If you seriously believe that we are all just victims of some mass delusion because we've all walked away from your posts with the same thoughts; and if you're really not going to even take a moment to reflect on the fact that so many people took your post a certain way; then there isn't much more to say to you other then, you are obviously fooling yourself because facing up to what we are telling you would be too uncomfortable for you. I don't know what else to say.

And then you go and invoke Godwin's Law again. Oopie.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

Diversity may be overrated if you've got plenty of it. If you have next to none of it, it's not.

Thank goodness for these internets.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

You'd might like Indiana. It's so conservative it makes Bakersfield seem bleeding heart liberal. You're certainly fit in there more than I ever could.

I don't know. I like being left alone and you made it seem like that's not what they do there.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't know. I like being left alone and you made it seem like that's not what they do there.

They don't. Like there, people will knock on your door to preach, approach you in the street, place literature on your car, and get very involved with your business, especially if they percieve you to be found something that think wrong, like not believing in a personal and anthropomorphic diety. People in Indiana tend to pester you alot if they find that out, and try to insert it into your life wherever they can. Here in California no one gives a crap of you believe or not.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

Sure you do. It’s your duty to bring us to your God.

Nope.

My "duty" is to share what I believe with others. And I have done so.

We are done.

How can someone or something fail me that I have no belief in or have no expectations of?

After I claimed that God wants us to become perfect, you said in response in Post #578,

"If he wants us to be perfect he’s done a pretty crappy job."

This is you claiming that God has failed in His desire to make us perfect. He failed in His desire to make you perfect.

If, however, my belief that God has promised eventual perfection to those who remain faithful and keep His commandments proves true - then it would be us who failed Him and His desire for us to become perfect, not Him us.

You claimed that God has somehow failed us when, according to my beliefs, He has given us everything we need to become perfect.

You being unwilling to do as God has commanded - and therefore gain eventual perfection - is your fault, not His.

Quite the contrary. He cares greatly.

Yet, you have been claiming that your God accepts everyone, regardless of what they do.

I would contend that that means that he does not care about what anybody does - because we are defined by what we do.

So much that he’s appeared 23 times already, and will appear one more time, to right wrongs.

You've seen your God 23 times?

How can you "right wrongs" if he accepts everything?

What does he consider a "wrong" and how does he plan to right them?

But he teaches, he doesn’t bark orders, threats or commands.

He sounds like an ineffectual teacher then.

I never throw the first punch. When someone gives me unsolicited advice or opinions, yes I will try my best to shut them down.

Are you claiming that I "threw a punch" at you? If so, when did I do so?

I understand that no one can make you listen to anyone else, but why do you consider "unsolicited advice or opinions" a "first punch"? Why are you equating speech with violence?

Also, how does what you say here apply to me and our discussion when this whole thing began with you asking me to share my beliefs? What I shared was not "unsolicited".

I think we all know them. I was raised with them and freely rejected them.

That doesn't affect my right to Freedom of Speech.

Just like how I have no right to force you to listen to me - you don't have the right to shut me down.

If you reject what I say and feel like you've had enough of me - leave - because you don't have the right to shut me down.

Only if it were justified.

Before I address this comment you made I want to make something clear - I MADE A MISTAKE.

You made the above comment in response to something I said in my last post, which was, "You have convinced me that if you had the power you'd censure everyone that disagreed with you. I believe that is evil.” (Bold and italics added)

I accidentally used the word "censure", which means to "express a formal disapproval" when I meant to use the word "censor", which means to "suppress or delete".

I DO NOT believe that it is "evil" to "censure" someone. Everyone has the right to disapprove of what others do and say. They always have that right.

Even though I believe that my earlier comments and posts made it clear that I was claiming that you would "censor" me if you had the power - which I would consider evil - that was not the word I wrote.

Therefore - because words matter - I have to ask what you meant when you said, "Only if it were justified."

Are you claiming that "censuring" someone could be justified or "censoring" someone could be justified?

If it is the first, then I agree and have nothing to say. If it is the second, then you and I have a very significant problem.

There are and have been people here I disagree with and who disagree with me. But we converse. Most people know when to back off the sales pitch.

This comment gives me hope that you were claiming the first and not the second.

I honestly believe that very little (if any) of my posts have been any "sales pitch". I merely tried to answer your questions.

Most of my comments have been attempts to either clear up forum member's attempts to misrepresent my beliefs or point out what I believe to be flaws in your arguments.

I have shared what I desire to share about my beliefs and I don't care if you accept them.

Perfect example of “my way or no way”.

How could you consider anything I said to be me claiming "my way or no way"?

What I said was,

"If you don't want to hear us "preach" - don't come on religious forums websites.

If you really don't want us to to "preach" - you should especially not ask us to - like you did me."

Do you not know what a "forum" is? It literally means, "a public meeting place for open discussion."

My point (which somehow was completely lost on you) was that if you don't want to hear people share their opinions - don't go to a public meeting place designed for open discussion.

Everyone has the right to share their opinions on this forum - as long as they don't violate the forum rules. I have just as much right to share as you do.

If you don't like that - tough beans. That's life. You're going to hear opinions that you are not going to agree with or like. Get over it.

This is no way is me claiming that it is "my way or no way". I don't understand how you got there.

How about I start preaching to you about my faith.

Go ahead. This is a forum. You are free to speak.

Everyone has that right.

You don’t want to hear it.

What I want does not change your rights.

I am free to stop talking to you at any time. Just as you are free.

Yet I should not come onto a religious website that you think is for your own beliefs only? Wow just wow.

I still don't understand how you came to such a ridiculous conclusion.

I only said that you shouldn't come to a forum if you don't want to hear other people's opinions. That's nonsensical.

You getting @SkepticThinker to vote for this rubbish proves that it is nonsensical.

Remember, he was the guy you voted for @columbus claim that me sharing my opinion was "similar" to raping a child.

His "seal of approval" proves that what you said makes no sense.

 

[columbus]

Remember, he was the guy you voted for @columbus claim that me sharing my opinion was "similar" to raping a child.

Feel free to refer to the post where I said that.

I'll save everybody some time.
It didn't happen.
Tom

 

[Jainarayan]

We are done.

Far from it.

After I claimed that God wants us to become perfect, you said in response in Post #578,

"If he wants us to be perfect he’s done a pretty crappy job."

This is you claiming that God has failed in His desire to make us perfect. He failed in His desire to make you perfect.

Then he’s not omnipotent is he?

If, however, my belief that God has promised eventual perfection to those who remain faithful and keep His commandments proves true - then it would be us who failed Him and His desire for us to become perfect, not Him us.

What parent requires his or her children to be perfect? What is perfect anyway? What parent gives commands to his children expecting them to follow them to the letter then rejecting those children? Is that the God you worship?

You claimed that God has somehow failed us when, according to my beliefs, He has given us everything we need to become perfect.

You being unwilling to do as God has commanded - and therefore gain eventual perfection - is your fault, not His.

What would those things be? Besides “do this/don’t do this or else”.

Yet, you have been claiming that your God accepts everyone, regardless of what they do.

I would contend that that means that he does not care about what anybody does - because we are defined by what we do.

Consider his words:

“Even if the vilest sinners worship Me with exclusive devotion, they are to be considered righteous, for they have made the proper resolve.

Quickly they become virtuous, and attain lasting peace. O [My friend] declare it boldly that no devotee of Mine is ever lost.

All those who take refuge in Me, whatever their birth, race, sex, or caste, even those whom society scorns, will attain the supreme destination.”

You've seen your God 23 times?

I’m not that old.

How can you "right wrongs" if he accepts everything?

What does he consider a "wrong" and how does he plan to right them?

He sounds like an ineffectual teacher then.

You’ll need to read the Mahābhārata, Rāmāyana and Puranas to get the idea. But it’s really quite simple. Read the life story of Siddhartha Gautama, aka the Buddha, to understand the changes. Then read, really read, the Sermon on the Mount and all of Jesus’s teachings to understand where he drew his inspiration from, and what he was teaching.

Are you claiming that I "threw a punch" at you? If so, when did I do so?

I understand that no one can make you listen to anyone else, but why do you consider "unsolicited advice or opinions" a "first punch"? Why are you equating speech with violence?

I’m not talking about literal violence. It’s metaphorical. To start off by making criticisms of people’s beliefs and lives based on your criteria is “throwing the first punch”.

That doesn't affect my right to Freedom of Speech.

Just like how I have no right to force you to listen to me - you don't have the right to shut me down.

If you reject what I say and feel like you've had enough of me - leave - because you don't have the right to shut me down.

Freedom of speech is not a right or guaranteed on the Internet. Nor do you have a right to tell someone they shouldn’t be on a particular site, something you’ve done a couple of times

If it is the first, then I agree and have nothing to say. If it is the second, then you and I have a very significant problem.

That goes without saying.

I honestly believe that very little (if any) of my posts have been any "sales pitch". I merely tried to answer your questions.

We’ll have to agree to disagree.

Most of my comments have been attempts to either clear up forum member's attempts to misrepresent my beliefs or point out what I believe to be flaws in your arguments.

I don’t think there’s a person who doesn’t understand or know your beliefs. Many of us are currently or formerly Christian.

... I don't care if you accept them.

I think you do, because of the frequency with which you cite others’ “weakness” and inability or unwillingness to accept your God’s way.

How could you consider anything I said to be me claiming "my way or no way"?

Do you believe that your beliefs and way of worship and belief in your God are the only ways to achieve salvation and reach God? Do you believe that my beliefs and way of worship can bring me to God? If I don’t believe as you do what will happen to me?

What I said was,

"If you don't want to hear us "preach" - don't come on religious forums websites.

If you really don't want us to to "preach" - you should especially not ask us to - like you did me."

Do you not know what a "forum" is? It literally means, "a public meeting place for open discussion."

The two points you keep missing are that you have no right to expect to be allowed to preach and tell anyone if they don’t want to hear it, there’s the door.

That’s a glaring example of “my way or no way”.

Actually 3 points... forum rules prohibit preaching, sermonizing and proselytizing.

My point (which somehow was completely lost on you) was that if you don't want to hear people share their opinions - don't go to a public meeting place designed for open discussion.

Everyone has the right to share their opinions on this forum - as long as they don't violate the forum rules. I have just as much right to share as you do.

If you don't like that - tough beans. That's life. You're going to hear opinions that you are not going to agree with or like. Get over it.

This is no way is me claiming that it is "my way or no way". I don't understand how you got there.

Did you really think that logic through?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Then he’s not omnipotent is he?

Sums it up, I think.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You getting @SkepticThinker to vote for this rubbish proves that it is nonsensical.

Remember, he was the guy you voted for @columbus claim that me sharing my opinion was "similar" to raping a child.

His "seal of approval" proves that what you said makes no sense.

Aww shucks. Flattery will get you no where.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

No one's giving anyone "special privileges" but feel free to try again.

Explain Affirmative Action to me.

There you go crying about your loss of privilege being persecution, again.

Again, you are begging the question.

You are using your assumption that I am an inheritor of some kind of privilege is the premise of your argument - which you then use to assume the truth of your conclusion - rather than supporting it.

Your argument requires that I be an inheritor of privilege - which you have yet to prove.

What a ****ty argument. "Oh, trying to make things better for this oppressed underclass might result in a disparity of opportunity, so we have to keep them as an oppressed underclass for ever"

Making everyone equal - without offering any special privilege in a deranged attempt to correct history - would oppress no one.

Not only is such an argument "illogical", but blatantly contrary to the teachings of Christ, so, you know, maybe stop it.

I do not believe that the Lord Jesus Christ would approve of any attempt to correct history.

However, since you consider my position "illogical", explain to me how far back we should go in our attempts to correct history?

Why stop at only slavery in the U.S.? If we go back far enough my ancestors could have been slaves to your ancestors.

If that were true, would you owe me something?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Explain Affirmative Action to me.

Again, you are begging the question.

You are using your assumption that I am an inheritor of some kind of privilege is the premise of your argument - which you then use to assume the truth of your conclusion - rather than supporting it.

Your argument requires that I be an inheritor of privilege - which you have yet to prove.

Making everyone equal - without offering any special privilege in a deranged attempt to correct history - would oppress no one.

I do not believe that the Lord Jesus Christ would approve of any attempt to correct history.

However, since you consider my position "illogical", explain to me how far back we should go in our attempts to correct history?

Why stop at only slavery in the U.S.? If we go back far enough my ancestors could have been slaves to your ancestors.

If that were true, would you owe me something?

Perhaps you might, if the enslavement of your ancestors resulted in long-lasting negative prejudicial, societal, psychological, institutional and/or systemic attitudes towards a whole group of people, based solely on their skin colour.