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Featured "Christian Moms Group Condemns Hallmark Channel for Airing Lesbian Wedding Ad"

Discussion in 'Religious News' started by Skwim, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    You're going to have to do a bit of clarifying on this post, Tom. I think it goes without saying that I'm probably the most non-traditional practicing Latter-day Saint on this forum. But to describe Warren Jeffs as "traditional" is absurd. In what sense do you see him as traditional? And to say that his behavior was supported by his religious community is really misleading. What religious community might that have been?
     
  2. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

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    If you'd rather tell yourself that the rest of us are all just having some mass delusion because we all came to the same conclusion after reading your posts, and you don't like that, then I guess there's nothing more to say, and your arguments are no longer worth entertaining. Because you are just kidding yourself.

    Also, you've brought up Godwin's Law more than once on the thread. So there's that.:shrug:
    Godwin's law - Wikipedia
     
    #562 SkepticThinker, Jan 15, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  3. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

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    Why do you believe that?

    Do you believe others should care what your religion believes?

    I have a cousin who is gay, who managed to "multiply after her kind." So your God is cool with her, right?
    And the same God is not cool with my heterosexual mother marrying a heterosexual man long after she was no longer able to "multiply after her kind?"
     
  4. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    What about those of us who don't believe in your God? Or in my case that if he does exist, and is just another deity running amok, has no authority over me, and his wishes are not binding on me. Wha'bout dat?

    And if, as you've been protesting that these are only your beliefs, why does the subject matter so much? That is to say, that I live and sleep with another man, albeit legally married under US law, how does that affect you or any other marriage? Why do you care? This is what I don't understand about those who are against same sex marriage. What is it to you?
     
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  5. JesusKnowsYou

    JesusKnowsYou Active Member

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    That's still very strange to me. I have lived in California my whole life and I have been given much grief over my race and sex.

    It's to the point where they believe that I am not allowed to have an opinion about certain things because I'm white or because I am a man.

    However, I do tend to receive the most grief when I claim to disagree with the masses on various topics.

    Perhaps they would ignore my race and sex if I stopped thinking for myself and just let them decide everything for me?

    Maybe you haven't received any grief because you happen to agree with the masses on various topics?

    That's interesting, because that's generally the behavior I receive from most Californians once they come to know that I don't agree with them.


    Of course, they don't point to the Bible or God, but they do tend to threaten violence on those they disagree with while holding a sign that says, "Peace".

    I believe that everyone has a "beam" in their eye and everyone also feels threatened by things they don't agree with or understand.

    I don't believe that God or the Bible teaches people to be hypocrites or to fear what they don't understand - but rather Satan does this- and he can rage in the hearts of us all if we let him.
    I have been reading the Bible for most of my life and I have yet to see anything contained within it that "robs a child of self esteem" or "destroys their confidence"

    It is true that I have seen people try to use it to teach the false doctrine that all Mankind is deserving of Hell.

    If that were true, then the Lord Jesus Christ would not have done what He did to redeem and save us.

    He obviously believes that we do not deserve to go to Hell, since He is offering us all an escape from it.
     
    #565 JesusKnowsYou, Jan 17, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  6. JesusKnowsYou

    JesusKnowsYou Active Member

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    I don't believe that to be a fact.

    Could you point out they way the system penalizes black people because of their race?
    They don't. That's an exaggeration.

    Even if they did, if we are talking about Government "positions of power", then there would be nothing wrong with it. The People decide who represents them.

    That is not an example of "systematic oppression".

    Did you somehow forget that we had a black man as the President of the United States of America for eight years?
    What advantages?

    What institutions are treating black people as inferior?

    If people are treating black people as inferior - that sucks - but that is not an example of "systematic oppression".
    100% serious.
     
  7. JesusKnowsYou

    JesusKnowsYou Active Member

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    Given special privilege to anyone because of their race or sex is not equality.
     
  8. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    That's strange to me, because my experience has been largely and mostly people mind their own business. Even in "conservative" Bakersfield, people generally don't butt in and intrude into your life and business. I've gotten no grief over being white, from no one of any ethnicity here, and I'm definitely pale white for the area.
     
  9. JesusKnowsYou

    JesusKnowsYou Active Member

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    I believe that the Holy Spirit of God has testified to my heart and mind the truthfulness of these things.

    It is an ineffable witness that is so powerful that it can cast out all fear and doubt.
    What do you mean by "care"?
    I do not believe that my God is any different than your God or anyone else's God. I believe there to be only one.

    My belief is that God is both "cool" and "not cool" with her or any of us.

    God is always "cool" with us to the extent that He has given us our freedom of choice and He honors the decisions that we make.

    Our purpose for coming to this world is to be tested, but this test is not simply about getting all the right answers, but rather proving to God and ourselves who and what we are. And also who and what we want to be.

    Who and what we decide to be in this world - God will honor and be "cool" with - but we can't expect to receive the same outcome as everyone else in the next life. We are all different and we will all receive different outcomes.

    Unless, of course, we strive to do everything that God has commanded us because He has made promises to us all that if we are obedient to His commandments then we will receive certain outcomes in the life to come.

    God is also always "not cool" with us because we commit sin and sin alienates us from God. He is a perfected Being and cannot dwell with imperfect Beings because those of a lower glory (or kingdom) cannot abide the glory of a higher kingdom. It is not possible.

    However, because He loves us, He gave His Son as an eternal sacrifice for sin and if we but rely on the Son - His merits and grace - we can eventually overcome those things that separate us from God - sin and death - and eventually become perfected and live with Him again.

    To be clear - no one achieves perfection in this life - no one can keep all of God's commandments in this life - but if we do our best and rely on the Lord Jesus Christ - it is possible to achieve perfection after this life.

    So, to answer your question, it is my belief that God desires your cousin to be perfected through His Son - who was sent to the world as a sacrifice on her behalf - which would include learning of Him, following His example and giving up her sins.

    God has also taught that sexual relations should only be between a man and woman who are legally and lawfully wedded as husband and wife.

    Whatever your cousin decides to do with this information - God will honor and "be cool" with - but He cannot extend all the promised outcomes to her if she decides not to be obedient to His commands.

    I am super glad that I am not going to judge anyone. I can't predict or assume anyone's eventual outcome after this life. All I can do is share what I believe to be true.
    Your mother's inability to have children has no bearing on her willingness to be obedient to God's commands. That is all He asks. That we are willing to try our best to do as He commands.

    All of us are filled with weaknesses. He asks us to be obedient despite our weaknesses. He claims that if we allow our weaknesses to humble us, thus causing us to rely on His strength - He will make our weaknesses into strengths.
     
    #569 JesusKnowsYou, Jan 17, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  10. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    Then your God is very different from my God, and they cannot be the same God. Because "my" God is cool with all of us no matter what we are. Why would he be so petty as to be concerned with our sexuality? Does he not have enough to do?
     
  11. JesusKnowsYou

    JesusKnowsYou Active Member

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    I don't understand people like you.

    You asked me to share my beliefs about sin and homosexuality and I did so.

    That's it. That is all that happened here.

    However, you decided to get offended and are now acting as if I said you needed to do something?

    You don't have to agree with me. You don't have to believe in God. You don't have to do anything.

    If anyone asks me to share my beliefs with them I will gladly do so.

    You perverted this whole thing by attributing some sort of motive to my sharing. Shared because you asked.
    It honestly doesn't.

    If you read my initial posts on this thread you would have learned that I don't care about this lesbian wedding commercial at all.

    I only took issue with the fact that forum members were referring to OMM as a "hate group" and calling them "bullies".

    I don't agree with OMM's decision to protest the commercial, but that doesn't mean they should be considered hateful bullies.

    Our discussion only got heated once people started misrepresenting what I said and claimed that I said things I never did.
    I don't believe it is a real marriage. That's it.

    Now, you can decide to be offended by that if you want, or we can just agree to disagree.

    Just don't lie about me and my beliefs.
    Why do vegetarians care when people eat meat?

    Why do environmentalists care when they see someone driving a humvee?

    Why do Christians claim homosexuality is sinful?

    We all have our beliefs and issues that we are passionate about.

    The key difference here is you came to me and asked me to share.

    I didn't disturb your steak dinner.

    I didn't give you black lung with my gas-guzzler.

    I wasn't on a soap box crying, "Shame!"

    I addressed the questions about my beliefs you posed to me.

    That's as deep as I went. I honestly invested nothing more.

    I only became irritated when people started lying about what I said and about my beliefs.
     
    #571 JesusKnowsYou, Jan 17, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  12. JesusKnowsYou

    JesusKnowsYou Active Member

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    Hey! It's the supposedly "less-traditional" member of the Church!

    You seem to be a metric for members of the Church on this site. Kudos!

    What does everyone mean by "traditional" and why do you consider yourself "non-that"?
     
  13. JesusKnowsYou

    JesusKnowsYou Active Member

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    Yeah, like I didn't notice you backpedaling. Moving the goal post.

    At first you claimed that I only "mentioned" pedophilia (when I actually only "mentioned" an attraction to children).

    That turned quickly into me "comparing" the two which everyone argued meant that I believed that raping children was the "same" or "similar" to having consensual sex with a same-sex partner.

    However, that argument stagnated after I quoted where I said that I was not claiming that these weaknesses were "exactly the same".

    You then said that all of your collective arguments that I compared the two were not arguments that they were "exactly the same", so I was still guilty of comparing them.

    So, yeah, you don't even know what you are all agreeing and slapping each other on the back about. Most people here didn't even read my initial post.

    This mass delusion began with you being perturbed that I mentioned an attraction to children in a discussion about inappropriate sexual attraction. You just don't like the fact that I believe homosexuality is sinful.

    My "arguments" have been the same since the beginning, "I clearly stated that I was not comparing pedophilia to homosexuality."

    Even if I was not as clear as I believed myself to be, you'd think everyone on this thread would know now that I don't believe pedophilia and homosexuality are the same or similar after all the time I've dedicated to claiming thus.

    However, since you are all unreasonable and knee-deep in your mass delusion - you keep moving the goal posts and misrepresenting my beliefs.
    Yeah, I brought it up to a guy who believes that I should be arrested, assaulted or killed for sharing my opinion.

    Sounds like a "Hitler-move" to me.
     
  14. JesusKnowsYou

    JesusKnowsYou Active Member

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    I suppose it depends on how social you are.

    I mean, if you're a recluse, then yeah - no one is going to bother you much.

    I got most of the grief from when I was in school and at work.
     
  15. JesusKnowsYou

    JesusKnowsYou Active Member

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    We are all that He cares about. Our development is His work and His glory. He wants us to be perfect.

    I believe that "your" God makes a pretty lousy God and parent.
     
  16. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    :D

    Not really. I've just been hanging around the forum for almost 15 years, and with nearly 30,000 posts, I'm probably better-known to other RFers than most members of the Church.

    I'm just kind of a square peg trying to fit into a round hole. I'm considerably more liberal (not just politically but otherwise) than most Latter-day Saints. As an example, I am quite vocal in defending LGBT rights, and have marched with a group called "Mormons Building Bridges" in Salt Lake City's Pride Parade for something like 8 years running. I have a current temple recommend and I do attend the temple fairly regularly. But if I were to be totally honest, I'd rather spend my time at the Salt Lake Metro Jail where I've been called (along with my husband) as a Sunday School teacher to the inmates. I am also not afraid to speak out when I disagree with Church policy. For years and years and years, I was adamant in saying that I felt temple-worthy couples who wanted (for whatever reason) to have a civil marriage first and then be sealed (later that same day, the next day, the next month or whenever) ought to be able to do so without having to wait for an entire year. I had to listen to countless fellow Church members criticize me for daring to disagree with the Brethren. And now look what has happened: Last May the rule was changed. So now (at least for the time being), I'm no longer a heretic in the eyes of some of my peers. (Incidentally, my signature is a pretty good indicator of how I see myself.)

    To be clear... I have a strong testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and am tremendously grateful to have been born and raised LDS.
     
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  17. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    Stop pretending your comments are oh so innocent opinions and crying persecution when you’re called out on what they are... preaching. Cut the crap.
     
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  18. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    Why is God a glory hound? Why do we need a parent? If he wants us to be perfect he’s done a pretty crappy job.
     
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  19. JesusKnowsYou

    JesusKnowsYou Active Member

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    Congrats on your activity here and in the Church.

    I don't understand why what you shared with me means you are a "square peg".

    To my knowledge, the Church has always been an advocate of LGBT rights - so you aren't "square" for marching in that parade.

    I understand why you'd prefer do teach a Sunday School class rather than go to the Temple - Endowment can be boring - but I just tell myself that I'm not doing it for me, but for whoever I'm standing in proxy for - so you aren't "square" in that regard either.

    I had no idea that they changed the policy about civil marriages.

    My wife's family aren't members, so I had to have a ceremony outside of the Temple too. I got sealed the day before. Even though I cannot come up with a reason for why a Temple-worthy couple could not be sealed first before having such a ceremony - you disagreeing with Church policy isn't "square peg-y".

    I mean, if they can dissolve the High Priest Group, make us into ministering members rather than home teachers and finally take us to just two hours on Sunday - there's no reason to assume we can't question Church policy.

    Do you live in the "Happy Valley"?
     
  20. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...

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    Yep, that's the stuff. Seeing an extension of equality as "giving special privilege" is exactly what my post was referring to. Thanks for the demonstration.
     
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