Choosing a child's religion vs. a child's career

[SkylarHunter]

Personally I think parents should educate their children in secular and spiritual matters. Once the child becomes an adult, it's their choice.

 

[LuisDantas]

I would need some info on the circunstances, actually.

Choosing a religion is wrong per se, but there is no way or reason to attempt to completely insulate a child from the beliefs of their raisers or even biological parents.

Choosing a career is also wrong, often even more wrong, but it is also possible to be much more of a part of that than in the choice of religion.

 

[Reverend Rick]

What would be wrong is to force a child into a decision against their will.

 

[bobhikes]

I pick both OK.

If my child is undecided about a career I can pick a direction for them to go.
If my child graduated and is sitting at home living off of me, I can force him into a carreer or out of the house.
If my child finds something on there own I can support them.

I and my family pratice a certain religion much like we speak a certain language.
I can teach and have my child taught that family religion.
I do express there are other religions and tell him eventually he will decide
I support my childs decision on religion when he decides.

By the way my family has 2 different religions and 1 non-religion and its not a problem for us at all.

I also believe prearranged marriages can be good for children.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Do you think its appropriate to choose what country your child grows up in? Ultimately choosing the country culture your child grows up in, will become a large part of the child's identity. If you choose to raise your children in a country that espouses religious freedom, then your child is likely to maintain that same belief. Is that respectful?

It's necessary. I only know one person who raised his kids while travelling the world on his yacht. Most of us don't have the resources to do this, so we have to live somewhere.

Ultimately, this is not the type of question you would expect to hear from an actual parent. Every parent is faced with balancing the desire to raise their child in a manner that they believe is most beneficial to them, while still giving their child room to grow in self-identity. There is no way to completely remove all cultures and philosophies from a child's background. Instead we try to do what we believe is best for them in all aspects and when it is time to let them take flight, we hope for the best for them

I think the questions I asked in the OP have been lost a bit I. The course of the thread. Remember that I'm not asking whether children should be raised completely insulated from religion; I'm asking whether it's okay to choose a religion for them in the way that a parent might try to choose their child's career.

I realize that parents influence their children just through their example, and just letting a child know that their Mom or Dad is a nurse and Muslim, for instance, might increase the likelihood that the child will choose nursing or Islam for themselves; that's not the sort of influence I'm talking about.

What I'm getting at are cases where a child is raised to be a member of a particular religion from the outset but where the parents would think it was improper to choose their child's career.

What makes it okay to say with your actions "this child is Jewish from the moment of his bris (or Catholic from the moment of his baptism, or similar) until such time as he rejects his religion" but not okay for a parent to say "this child is an accountant-to-be and will be raised as such until such time as he rejects this career"?

Edit: and merely letting your child know that Mommy or Daddy are accountants is not the same as choosing accountancy for him or her.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I would need some info on the circunstances, actually.

Choosing a religion is wrong per se, but there is no way or reason to attempt to completely insulate a child from the beliefs of their raisers or even biological parents.

Again, I'm not talking about completely isolating children from their parents beliefs any more than I'm talking about parents keeping their jobs secret from their kids.

Consider the elements of one version of the "standard" religious upbringing (I've used the Catholic Church as an example, but the practices of many religious would serve to demonstrate the same point):

- shortly after birth, you have a ceremony where the child is declared "Catholic" before the community.
- from then on, you bring the child to a weekly meeting where the virtues of the Catholic Church are proclaimed. Parents are also expected to proclaim these virtues at home the rest of the week.
- around age 7, the child is asked to make a commitment to the Catholic Church. The answer "no" is never presented as an option.
- the weekly meetings continue.
- around age 13, the child learns the details of what it really means to be Catholic and is asked to make a lifelong commitment to the Church. While the possibility of saying "no" is mentioned, there is extreme pressure from peers and family to say "yes".
- the weekly meetings continue.

This goes well beyond simply "not insulating" the child from the beliefs of the parents. Heck, it even goes well beyond bringing the child with you when you go to church for yourself because you can't afford a babysitter.

THAT is the sort of thing I'm talking about. I don't know anyone who would declare their child to be a dentist at birth and ask them to commit to a career in dentistry before they've even started high school. But I know plenty of parents who would do this with religion.

 

[Tumah]

It's necessary. I only know one person who raised his kids while travelling the world on his yacht. Most of us don't have the resources to do this, so we have to live somewhere.

That was kind of my point. We have to raise our kids in "something". Whether that includes a belief in a certain religion or lack of belief in any religion, there is no way to not raise our children in "something". Would you not agree that raising children in agnosticism is also providing them with a background that will impact their approach to religion? So you need to choose something.

I think the questions I asked in the OP have been lost a bit I. The course of the thread. Remember that I'm not asking whether children should be raised completely insulated from religion; I'm asking whether it's okay to choose a religion for them in the way that a parent might try to choose their child's career.

I realize that parents influence their children just through their example, and just letting a child know that their Mom or Dad is a nurse and Muslim, for instance, might increase the likelihood that the child will choose nursing or Islam for themselves; that's not the sort of influence I'm talking about.

What I'm getting at are cases where a child is raised to be a member of a particular religion from the outset but where the parents would think it was improper to choose their child's career.

What makes it okay to say with your actions "this child is Jewish from the moment of his bris (or Catholic from the moment of his baptism, or similar) until such time as he rejects his religion" but not okay for a parent to say "this child is an accountant-to-be and will be raised as such until such time as he rejects this career"?

Edit: and merely letting your child know that Mommy or Daddy are accountants is not the same as choosing accountancy for him or her.

Sorry, I don't always go through the entire thread before I post.

Anyway, this was what I was trying to answer in my previous post. A parent tries to do their best for their child. A parent raises their child in a certain belief (or lack thereof) because they believe it is best for their child. That is a parent's responsibility. The only question is whether that belief (or lack) is objectively good for the child. But in a way, that's irrelevant. Until a clear path that is demonstrably better for your child can be known, all you can do is your best according to your understanding.

But think about it this way: would you agree that the responsible parents raise their child to succeed in their chosen career paths? How many responsible parents try to raise their children to succeed as janitors as opposed to doctors, lawyers, professors or some other respectable career. So in a way, we do try to egg our children on in the direction we think is best for them- even when it comes to careers.

 

[Iti oj]

My religion has greatly influenced who I am as a parent, as a person.

I've never gone out of my way to force a particular faith upon my children, but, I joyfully share it with them.

Yes. They have the ability to reject that which they see fit to reject as they grow and learn. They may choose a similar religious path or may choose something different.

I'm not going to feel any guilt for having planted the seeds that I have, just as I'm grateful to my mother for planting her seeds, which continue to bear fruit.

Are your children baptized? Do they go to Sunday school? Did/do you take them to church?>

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That was kind of my point. We have to raise our kids in "something". Whether that includes a belief in a certain religion or lack of belief in any religion, there is no way to not raise our children in "something". Would you not agree that raising children in agnosticism is also providing them with a background that will impact their approach to religion? So you need to choose something.

No, you don't. Not the way I think you're suggesting, anyhow. I think you're conflating a few different things:

- unavoidable influences
- deliberate influences
- parental expectations

A British parent might have no choice to raise their child in the UK, but they do have a choice about whether to create an expectation that their child must be a monarchist.

Sorry, I don't always go through the entire thread before I post.

Anyway, this was what I was trying to answer in my previous post. A parent tries to do their best for their child. A parent raises their child in a certain belief (or lack thereof) because they believe it is best for their child. That is a parent's responsibility.

I disagree. IMO, the parent's responsibility is to instill the tools and values in their child that will allow them to choose their own path.

The only question is whether that belief (or lack) is objectively good for the child. But in a way, that's irrelevant. Until a clear path that is demonstrably better for your child can be known, all you can do is your best according to your understanding.

No, that's not all you can do. Even someone who can't think of any better path than the one they chose for themselves can still concede that a better path might be out there to be found, and that the best path for them isn't necessarily the best path for their child.

There's a big difference between recognizing your own path as one that works and trying to close off all paths but yours for your child.

But think about it this way: would you agree that the responsible parents raise their child to succeed in their chosen career paths? How many responsible parents try to raise their children to succeed as janitors as opposed to doctors, lawyers, professors or some other respectable career. So in a way, we do try to egg our children on in the direction we think is best for them- even when it comes to careers.

Again, you're conflating issues. There's a big difference between a parent suggesting to his child that the child probably won't be happy in the long term as a janitor and a parent telling his child that he won't be welcome at home if he takes a job as a janitor.

And BTW: any honest living, including being a janitor, is respectable.

 

[Tumah]

No, you don't. Not the way I think you're suggesting, anyhow. I think you're conflating a few different things:

- unavoidable influences
- deliberate influences
- parental expectations

A British parent might have no choice to raise their child in the UK, but they do have a choice about whether to create an expectation that their child must be a monarchist.

So what you are saying is, agnosticism and atheism are not values that a parent would be choosing for their child?

I disagree. IMO, the parent's responsibility is to instill the tools and values in their child that will allow them to choose their own path.

Is suicide a valid path?

No, that's not all you can do. Even someone who can't think of any better path than the one they chose for themselves can still concede that a better path might be out there to be found, and that the best path for them isn't necessarily the best path for their child.

There's a big difference between recognizing your own path as one that works and trying to close off all paths but yours for your child.

That may be true, but you can't raise your children in a path you don't know. So instead you raise them the way you do know.

Again, you're conflating issues. There's a big difference between a parent suggesting to his child that the child probably won't be happy in the long term as a janitor and a parent telling his child that he won't be welcome at home if he takes a job as a janitor.

You are right, but we are talking in the beginning of the path. The reason why the parent wants their child to be a doctor (et al) is because parents want the best for their children and that includes them being happy and productive. You will be hard-pressed to find a responsible parent raising their child to be a drug dealer. So in a way, that is raising your child along a certain career path because of choices you made for your child.

And BTW: any honest living, including being a janitor, is respectable.

You are absolutely right. What I meant by respectable was a position of high social status. That was a translation mistake.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So what you are saying is, agnosticism and atheism are not values that a parent would be choosing for their child?

No, that's not what I'm saying. Why would you think that I was?

Is suicide a valid path?

What does this have to do with anything?

That may be true, but you can't raise your children in a path you don't know. So instead you raise them the way you do know.

... or not raise them in a path at all. Why do you need to have an end goal in mind for your children? Why can't you simply equip them with what they need to choose a goal of their own?

You are right, but we are talking in the beginning of the path. The reason why the parent wants their child to be a doctor (et al) is because parents want the best for their children and that includes them being happy and productive. You will be hard-pressed to find a responsible parent raising their child to be a drug dealer. So in a way, that is raising your child along a certain career path because of choices you made for your child.

Again: you're conflating concepts. These two things aren't equivalent. There's a big difference between "it's wrong to sell illegal drugs" and "we've decided that you're going to be a doctor."

You are absolutely right. What I meant by respectable was a position of high social status. That was a translation mistake.

Okay.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

What would be wrong is to force a child into a decision against their will.

I'm not sure that's possible except through indoctrination from a young age.

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm not sure that's possible except through indoctrination from a young age.

I'm so happy that you never met anyone like my biological parents.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I'm so happy that you never met anyone like my biological parents.

Yeah, I forgot about folks holding a gun or a checkbook to someone's head and insisting that they decide to go to church rather than stay home. I was thinking more about forcing someone to embrace a particular religious belief. I was raised in fundamentalist Christianity, but there was nothing they could have done to make me continue believing it into my adulthood (or even into my teenagerhood.)

 

[ChristineES]

Teaching your child your religion is not the same as forcing them to follow it. It's also not wrong to teach your child what you do for a living (take your child to work day, i. e.).

 

[thau]

A recent post in another thread reminded me of something that's puzzled me for a while now: generally, we consider it inappropriate to choose a child's career for him/her, but plenty of people don't have a problem with choosing a religion for them.

I think the same issues are at play in both: we recognize that a career can be a major part of a person's identity, and that it robs a person of self-direction to try to dictate what sort of adult the child will grow to be.

Isn't the same true for religion? Religious beliefs can be even more central to a person's identity than their career, so doesn't it disrespect the personhood of the child to try to dictate their choice of religion than it is to try to dictate their choice of career?

Thoughts? Is it fair to compare religion and a career this way?

Once again, your problem is with Christianity, not parenthood. We, as devout Christians, are obligated to witness to the world, and are more than mandated to raise our children in the virtues and teachings of the Word. What you are trying to save those kids from nobody knows? I mean, just how important are hedonistic pleasures? They are but for a moment and then you die. Our goals are infinitely higher than yours.

“What profit a man to gain the whole world yet lose his very soul?”

 

[Iti oj]

Teaching your child your religion is not the same as forcing them to follow it. It's also not wrong to teach your child what you do for a living (take your child to work day, i. e.).

did you baptize your children? Put them into Sunday school?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Once again, your problem is with Christianity, not parenthood. We, as devout Christians, are obligated to witness to the world, and are more than mandated to raise our children in the virtues and teachings of the Word. What you are trying to save those kids from nobody knows? I mean, just how important are hedonistic pleasures? They are but for a moment and then you die. Our goals are infinitely higher than yours.

Wow. I'd forgotten that there are still theists who assume that atheists reject God only so they can go out and get laid and do drugs.

Wow. Spooky thinking.

 

[bobhikes]

Wow. I'd forgotten that there are still theists who assume that atheists reject God only so they can go out and get laid and do drugs.

Wow. Spooky thinking.

Well there are Atheists that think all christians a programing there kids to be god's robots.

Just as spooky

 

[Tumah]

No, that's not what I'm saying. Why would you think that I was?


What does this have to do with anything?


... or not raise them in a path at all. Why do you need to have an end goal in mind for your children? Why can't you simply equip them with what they need to choose a goal of their own?

What I'm saying is that its not possible to not raise your children to some sort of belief, unbelief or disbelief. If you are Christian, you will naturally instill Christian values. If you are an atheist, it will be natural to you to encourage your children to question religion. I mean, how do you think this would work: parents bring home Christmas tree and tell their kids they're not getting presents until they are old enough to decide that they want to be Christian? It's just not practical.

Again: you're conflating concepts. These two things aren't equivalent. There's a big difference between "it's wrong to sell illegal drugs" and "we've decided that you're going to be a doctor."[/QUOTE]

Why is it wrong to sell drugs? Because you decided so? Because your society decided? Maybe selling Charas in India is right for your child? Maybe suicide is the right path for your child? It is you as a parent that is responsible to teach your child the things that you believe are important. That can mean teaching your child to be a productive member of society, to abstain from drug use, to strive for a career that will allow your child to live comfortable etc. etc. To parents of a religion, that also includes following their choice of religion.

Your child can always choose to sit and play video games all day while smoking pot and living off your income. Or to change his/her religious preferences. But that is for the child to decide when he/she comes of age. Until then, it is our job as parents to instill what we decide are the most important values in our children.