Celebrating Obama's Candidacy

[Smoke]

...and let's not forget the racist contingency that's going to vote for Obama solely because he is black.:sorry1: That crowd is just as misguided as the folks who are going to vote against him for the same reason.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I resent your naivete since you do not seem to realize that racism and sexism can work both ways. Please rest assured that for SOME people they most certainly do.

I don't agree.

No doubt, racism goes "both ways." The very idea that race is a matter of black and white, that there are two races worth talking about, is itself racist, but I don't want to go into that much detail. There are, to be sure, black people who dislike white people because they're white, and that's wrong. Of course it's wrong.

But it's not the same.

Black people voting for Obama because he's black is nothing like white people voting against Obama because he's black. It's not the same thing at all.

Tell me about your great-great-grandmother who was a slave. Tell me about how her older children were sold off from her, and how you only know about what became of the two youngest.

Tell me about your great-grandfather who hid in the woods, shaking with fear and rage, while his brother was lynched for daring to look a black woman in the eye.

Tell me about your grandfather who never voted till he was in his sixties, because black people controlled the polls, and excluded white people from voting.

Tell me about how he paid the same price for his lunch as a black man paid, but the black man sat inside in air-conditioned comfort while your grandfather stood out in the alley and ate his lunch standing up, because he was white.

Tell me about how your mother was thrown off the bus, and had to walk for miles to get home, because she was young and sassy, and refused to give up her seat to a black man.

Tell me about how your father worked his *** off to put himself through college, how he got a good job and rose in the company, and then had people tell him to his face that he was "very intelligent and articulate, for a white man."

Tell me about how you worked your own *** off to put yourself through college, and how black students looked down their nose at you and said they wished they got a free ride because of affirmative action.

Yeah, racism goes both ways. But it's not the same. It's not even close to being the same. The fact that anybody would be stupid enough to say it's the same, that they would have the audacity to say it's the same -- as if it's self-evident that voting for a man because he might have some clue about the struggles you and your family went through is the same as voting against a man because he belongs to a race that needs to be kept in its place -- is insane. It's not the same. It's not even close to being the same. Anybody who thinks it's anything like the same doesn't have the first ******* clue about race in America.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

Very interesting. First you say this...

...There are, to be sure, black people who dislike white people because they're white, and that's wrong. Of course it's wrong.

Saying that racism is wrong, but then you post a series of non-sequitors defending the right of black voters to vote for Obama because he "might have some clue about the struggles you and your family went through".

...The fact that anybody would be stupid enough to say it's the same...

Your diatribe, while interesting, is merely a justification for people voting for a candidate solely because the candidate is the same race, which nicely supports the point I made. Thank you for that.

Now I remember why I usually stay out of controversial topics. I deeply resent the clueless purposely misrepresenting my words and using them as a springboard into an irrelevant tangent. I made simple points that remain unrefuted, and I shall retire to the next thread.:bow:

 

[UnTheist]

This is why I don't like politics

 

[Burning Giraffe]

This is why I don't like politics

Please tell me that it isn't the only reason. That said, in life, you've got to do things you don't like - being involved in politics is one of those things.

 

[UnTheist]

Please tell me that it isn't the only reason.

That and I find it confusing.

That said, in life, you've got to do things you don't like - being involved in politics is one of those things.

It's a good thing being involved in politics isn't one of life's necessary chores.

 

[Burning Giraffe]

That and I find it confusing.

I'm pretty sure this is the intent of our government.

Depending on the person, one thing may be more worth doing than another.

Yes, but civic duty is a virtue, in my opinion, that we should never give up out of a sense of frustration or futility.

 

[PureX]

I genuinely like Obama. For the first time since I've been old enough to vote, I'm going to be able to cast a ballot for someone I really believe in.

That said, I agree with the OP about being disgusted by the self-congratulatory punditry about our historic nomination of a black man. The danger that I see in this is that people will indeed think that his election means that there is no more racism. Bull.

Worse yet, much of the grandiose punditry is itself racist. If racism were really conquered in this nation, we wouldn't be hearing all this gushing about what a precedent Obama's candidacy is. That's why just hearing it makes me cringe.

 

[PureX]

Now I remember why I usually stay out of controversial topics. I deeply resent the clueless purposely misrepresenting my words and using them as a springboard into an irrelevant tangent. I made simple points that remain unrefuted, and I shall retire to the next thread.

Yeah, how dare they not read your mind through your words, and then interject their OWN thoughts into the conversation!

 

[Scuba Pete]

John Edwards and many other candidates were completely ignored and ultimately sacrificed on the alter of political correctness..

Sounds grandiose with a tinge of bitterness, and it's ultimately wrong. There were no calls to political correctness. Barack won not on the basis of the color of his skin, or that his middle name is Hussein, but rather in SPITE of those.

I am sure you feel that there are "plenty of good white people" out there who could do the job as well or even better, and that's the point. This isn't about political correctness: it's about change. We picked the candidate who is most likely to get us out of Iraq and to balance the budget yet once more.

Unfortunately, this "political correctness" charge is going to be used by neo-cons in an attempt to discredit his success. They seem offended that we simply don't CARE that he is black or that Hillary was female. We voted for them because we want to get rid of cronyism and irresponsible government. We are tired of "Good ol' Boy" politics and going to war just to line your friends' pockets. We voted for Obama because he makes sense and we are quite happy that you are uncomfortable with his presence.

The choice is ULTRA clear to me: We vote for a change or we simply settle for McSame.

 

[lilithu]

Wow! I did NOT say this.

YOU SAID:

John Edwards and many other candidates were completely ignored and ultimately sacrificed on the alter of political correctness.

By suggesting the Obama won because of "political correctness" you are indeed saying that the majority of people voted for him because of his being black. If only a few people voted for him because he was black, he could not have won, could he? Heck, given that some people are also voting against him because he's black, a very large number of people would have to have voted for him just because he's black.

By suggesting the Obama won because of "political correctness" you are suggesting that other, more qualified candidates existed and yet got passed over. (Nay, got "sacrificed on the altar.") This is the same unfounded accusation that I hear levied against other African Americans when they succeed. When they fail, people claim that it's due to some personal weakness of theirs, but when they succeed, it's due to affirmative action and "PCness." If you can't see what is wrong with this kind of reasoning, so be it.

I stand by my interpretation.

You totally missed my very simple point, yet Dopp and YmirGF seemed to get it.

Dopp agreed with your FIRST sentence, WHICH I DIDN'T QUOTE (tho I do agree with Bill). I objected to your LAST sentence, and yet both you and YmirGF responded to me as if I was objecting to your first sentence. Hence, STRAW MAN.

 

[Troublemane]

Agreeing with lilithu and purex on this. :yes: Obama and Hillary just ran better campaigns[ than Edwards]. Though Obama is getting pressure now to make Hillary VP (which would be an smart political move), some are doubtful he will do it, since that would mean 4-8 years of having to deal with the Clintons trying to steal the spotlight constantly from him, having to put up with Bill hanging around the white house, etc.

As to the OP, yes there is some gushing in the media, but it seems no less than when Clinton got the nomination back in '92. He was a media darling from day 1, even though we already knew about Jennifer Flowers, etc. I think the media just prefers personality over substance, race is just icing on the cake---oh yes, they will play it up though, as now the pseudo-smarties in the media can smile to their european friends and say "See? We are more egalitarian and diverse in this country than you guys! Now, when will France or England have a black president?":angel2:

 

[lilithu]

oh yes, they will play it up though, as now the pseudo-smarties in the media can smile to their european friends and say "See? We are more egalitarian and diverse in this country than you guys! Now, when will France or England have a black president?":angel2:

That's exactly what Chris Matthews was doing!! I had to change the channel. Only to find that CNN was also talking about "the historic precedent," but at least they weren't doing the "we're better than Europe" thing. ARGH!!

 

[doppelganger]

Barack got the nomination on his merits, not political correctness, regardless of the media hype. The guy is inspiring to a lot of people, a great orator, classy, but above all that has a big league understanding of how to run a national campaign in all fifty states - something Democrats haven't understood in a long time. He raises money like nobody before (almost all of it from small donors), his team is and will be incredibly organized and ready to manage the grassroots all across the country. And his ideas are (for the most part), the right ones for our time. It's not because he's "black" - and suggesting that it is is just a subtle and hackneyed way of interjecting race into the election where it doesn't belong. It's because he's a very competent presidential candidate, with remarkable strategic vision, that he beat Edwards, Clinton and the rest.

 

[Smoke]

Very interesting. First you say this...Saying that racism is wrong, but then you post a series of non-sequitors defending the right of black voters to vote for Obama because he "might have some clue about the struggles you and your family went through".
Your diatribe, while interesting, is merely a justification for people voting for a candidate solely because the candidate is the same race, which nicely supports the point I made. Thank you for that.

Of course people have the right to vote for someone because he's of the same race, just as others have the right to vote against him because he's of a different race. (The fact that a man with a black father and a white mother is automatically "black" in America tells you a lot about race in America, too, but I'll let that go for now.)

People have a right to cast their vote for any damn fool reason they please.

However, voting for someone solely because he's black -- even if people are doing that, which I doubt -- is not at all the same thing as voting against someone solely because he's black. When you belong to a group that has been crapped on by the United States throughout its whole history, you have a right to be excited to see a member of that group, for the first time in history, advance within grasp of the presidency. It's not the same thing at all as being horrified that one of "those people" is getting above himself, and I maintain that anybody who thinks it is the same is lying to himself about the realities of racism in America.

But are people voting for Obama solely because he's black? I don't think so. While I don't find Obama particularly inspiring myself, a lot of people do. He's a great speaker, for one thing. He has the ability to get people excited. I know white Republicans who are planning to vote for him. He's that kind of guy.

If people are really voting for Obama solely because he's black, then it must be true that the same people would have been equally glad to vote for Al Sharpton, or Alan Keyes. I don't think anybody in his right mind believes that.

 

[Starfish]

I'm not surprised. Having one's head in the sand can obscure one's vision. :yes:

Rudeness is uncalled for.

I'm trying to be open-minded. Please give examples of any racist backlash. All I've seen in the media is anti-white, thanks to Obama's former church. (Personally, racism either way, is disgusting to me.)
I've heard people actually say, if we had two equally qualified candidates, equally matched in evey way and one was black and one was white, they'd vote for the black candidate. This is because they are sick of being called racist and feel a black president would put the whole issue to rest. And I agree with this.

I'd love to see a black, Asian, woman, Jewish, Mormon, etc. president.

 

[The Seeker]

...and let's not forget the racist contingency that's going to vote for Obama solely because he is black.:sorry1: That crowd is just as misguided as the folks who are going to vote against him for the same reason.

The media certainly christened Obama and Hillary the frontrunners and went ga-ga over the possibility that someone other than a white man might be elected President. If McCain does indeed win, the Democrats will have 4 years to lament the fact that John Edwards and many other candidates were completely ignored and ultimately sacrificed on the alter of political correctness..

I doubt that few people are voting for him simply because he's black. Do you think that many blacks would vote for Condeleeza Rice if she was running for President? I don't think so. A large majority of blacks have been voting for democrats for decades and I don't see any reason why it would be any different for this election.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Rudeness is uncalled for.

So was the war!

I'd love to see a black, Asian, woman, Jewish, Mormon, etc. president.

I just want to see competency. I could care less what race they happen to be.

 

[The Seeker]

Rudeness is uncalled for.

I'm trying to be open-minded. Please give examples of any racist backlash. All I've seen in the media is anti-white, thanks to Obama's former church. (Personally, racism either way, is disgusting to me.)
I've heard people actually say, if we had two equally qualified candidates, equally matched in evey way and one was black and one was white, they'd vote for the black candidate. This is because they are sick of being called racist and feel a black president would put the whole issue to rest. And I agree with this.

I'd love to see a black, Asian, woman, Jewish, Mormon, etc. president.

That's a rather ridiculous reason to vote for someone. Who, may I ask, are calling these people racist? Do you really think that if Obama is elected President that race issues will go away?

I'd love to see the day when a black, Asian, woman, Jew, Mormon or any other minority in this country can accomplish something without their race, sex or religion being a such a big deal.

 

[Sunstone]

I'd love to see the day when a black, Asian, woman, Jew, Mormon or any other minority in this country can accomplish something without their race, sex or religion being a such a big deal.

Communist!!!!

 

[Sunstone]

Barack Obama has been winning on his merits. He's an immensely talented politician who is able to unify people of diverse interests and backgrounds. Add to that, he's one of the most intelligent people in politics -- which, to be sure, is not a political qualification, but it is still impressive.