Catholic - Christian (Same or Different)

[David1967]

I'm gathering from what you're saying that you think that all "true Christians" belong to the same denomination or are at least in agreement on 100% of Christian theology. Would that be an accurate way of putting it?

See, I believe that it is possible for even the best, truest, most genuinely Christian person to be wrong about one or two (or many, actually) points of doctrine. We each need to decide for ourselves what we want to believe, but that doesn't have to involve passing judgment on our fellow human beings who believe differently. If you believe that Jesus Christ was the Savior sent to earth to atone for the sins of mankind and to show us the path we must follow to return to God, then I'd say you are a "true Christian." I'm sorry you don't feel the same way about me.

I agree Katz. There are many things concerning my faith that Im sure I fall short, but I do believe that Jesus is the Saviour. As far as who else is a "true" Christian? Thank God that is not for me or anyone else to decide. A persons faith is personal and God knows the heart of all people and only He discerns the hearts of mankind.

 

[rusra02]

If I may ask, What branch of Christianity are you associated with?

I am one of Jehovah's witnesses.

 

[rusra02]

I'm gathering from what you're saying that you think that all "true Christians" belong to the same denomination or are at least in agreement on 100% of Christian theology. Would that be an accurate way of putting it?

See, I believe that it is possible for even the best, truest, most genuinely Christian person to be wrong about one or two (or many, actually) points of doctrine. We each need to decide for ourselves what we want to believe, but that doesn't have to involve passing judgment on our fellow human beings who believe differently. If you believe that Jesus Christ was the Savior sent to earth to atone for the sins of mankind and to show us the path we must follow to return to God, then I'd say you are a "true Christian." I'm sorry you don't feel the same way about me.

I agree it is important to believe Jesus was sent to atone for sins and teach us the truth about God. I think the Bible teaches that more is needed than that to be a true Christian, however. In his famous "sermon on the mountain", Jesus concluded his talk by saying; "Therefore, everyone who hears these sayings of mine and does them will be like a discreet man who built his house on the rock. And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and lashed against that house, but it did not cave in, for it had been founded on the rock. Furthermore, everyone hearing these sayings of mine and not doing them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and struck against that house, and it caved in, and its collapse was great.” (Matthew 7:24-27)Thus, simply paying lip service to Jesus Christ and God while failing to live according to their teachings does not make one a Christian, even if that is what we call ourselves. Jesus said he would reject many who claimed to be his disciples, calling them " workers of lawlessness." (Matthew 7:21-23) So I believe it is vitally important that we come to know the truth about God and his Son, and then act according to that knowledge.(John 17:3)

 

[Katzpur]

I am one of Jehovah's witnesses.

Well that clears a lot up. You don't believe that anyone except other Jehovah's Witnesses are "true Christians," do you?

 

[Katzpur]

I agree it is important to believe Jesus was sent to atone for sins and teach us the truth about God. I think the Bible teaches that more is needed than that to be a true Christian, however. In his famous "sermon on the mountain", Jesus concluded his talk by saying; "Therefore, everyone who hears these sayings of mine and does them will be like a discreet man who built his house on the rock. And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and lashed against that house, but it did not cave in, for it had been founded on the rock. Furthermore, everyone hearing these sayings of mine and not doing them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and struck against that house, and it caved in, and its collapse was great.” (Matthew 7:24-27)Thus, simply paying lip service to Jesus Christ and God while failing to live according to their teachings does not make one a Christian, even if that is what we call ourselves. Jesus said he would reject many who claimed to be his disciples, calling them " workers of lawlessness." (Matthew 7:21-23) So I believe it is vitally important that we come to know the truth about God and his Son, and then act according to that knowledge.(John 17:3)

I can't argue with you there. I, too, believe that Jesus is not impressed by lip service. If we claim to have faith in Christ, we must also be faithful to Christ. And we are faithful to Him by obeying His commandments.

Still, your prior post did seem to clearly indicate that two people who interpreted doctrine differently could not both be true Christians. It's with this statement that I take issue.

 

[Katzpur]

LMAO.

It took me a minute to pick up on that. Good catch!

 

[rusra02]

I can't argue with you there. I, too, believe that Jesus is not impressed by lip service. If we claim to have faith in Christ, we must also be faithful to Christ. And we are faithful to Him by obeying His commandments.

Still, your prior post did seem to clearly indicate that two people who interpreted doctrine differently could not both be true Christians. It's with this statement that I take issue.

Consider the implications of believing and following different doctrines or teachings other than what Christ taught. Jesus said to his disciples; "you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:32) The Bible says that God's "will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth." (1 Timothy 2:4) If we believe and teach things that are not in agreement with the Bible, would we not be in danger of being "separated from Christ,...fallen away from his undeserved kindness?" (Galatians 5:4) It is clear to me that since God's will is that people know the truth, and Jesus said we would know the truth, there can be but "one spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism." (Ephesians 4:4,5)

 

[David1967]

Consider the implications of believing and following different doctrines or teachings other than what Christ taught. Jesus said to his disciples; "you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:32) The Bible says that God's "will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth." (1 Timothy 2:4) If we believe and teach things that are not in agreement with the Bible, would we not be in danger of being "separated from Christ,...fallen away from his undeserved kindness?" (Galatians 5:4) It is clear to me that since God's will is that people know the truth, and Jesus said we would know the truth, there can be but "one spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism." (Ephesians 4:4,5)

So if I may ask, just who is it among the different Christian faiths truly follow what Christ taught?

 

[Katzpur]

Consider the implications of believing and following different doctrines or teachings other than what Christ taught. Jesus said to his disciples; "you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:32) The Bible says that God's "will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth." (1 Timothy 2:4) If we believe and teach things that are not in agreement with the Bible, would we not be in danger of being "separated from Christ,...fallen away from his undeserved kindness?" (Galatians 5:4) It is clear to me that since God's will is that people know the truth, and Jesus said we would know the truth, there can be but "one spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism." (Ephesians 4:4,5)

That's nice. I, too, believe that it is God's will that people know the truth. The issue, however, is whether 100% accuracy in understanding God's teachings is required in order for someone to be called a "true Christian." Just keep one thing in mind... Jesus never used the term "Christian." That's a manmade label. I'm not saying we should disregard it. I'm just saying that He never used the term and He never defined it. What He did do was tell His disciples that the way people would be able to recognize them was by the love they showed to one another. A Christian is a disciple of Jesus Christ. And if we love and care for one another because we know that He is our Savior and this is His will, we are "true Christians." He said nothing to imply that the word "Christian" should be used in such a narrow sense as you are using it.

 

[David1967]

That's nice. I, too, believe that it is God's will that people know the truth. The issue, however, is whether 100% accuracy in understanding God's teachings is required in order for someone to be called a "true Christian." Just keep one thing in mind... Jesus never used the term "Christian." That's a manmade label. I'm not saying we should disregard it, because I'm not. I'm just saying that He never used the term and He never defined it. What He did do was tell His disciples that the way people would be able to recognize them was by the love they showed to one another. A Christian is a disciple of Jesus Christ. And if we love and care for one another because we know that He is our Savior and this is His will, we are "true Christians." He said nothing to imply that the word "Christian" should be used in such a narrow sense as you are using it.

Well said Katz. I don't think I have heard it better expressed than that. If we have to have it figured out to a particular degree to be a "true Christian", we are all in trouble. I mean seriously Katz, you are LDS and I am from a Baptist background. Even though there are some pretty diverse doctrinal differences I would never assume that you were not a "true Christian". And from the opinions I have seen you express I think we have much more in common than different. I think it goes back to what you said above. Thanks for that.

 

[Katzpur]

Well said Katz. I don't think I have heard it better expressed than that. If we have to have it figured out to a particular degree to be a "true Christian", we are all in trouble. I mean seriously Katz, you are LDS and I am from a Baptist background. Even though there are some pretty diverse doctrinal differences I would never assume that you were not a "true Christian". And from the opinions I have seen you express I think we have much more in common than different. I think it goes back to what you said above. Thanks for that.

When a Mormon and a Baptist can agree that they are both "true Christians," God rejoices.

 

[Deidre]

I was raised in the Catholic faith, and there are things that I still find beautiful about it, but if I had to narrow down to the main difference between non-Catholicism and Catholicism, it would be that Catholicism doesn't teach enough about the importance and relevance of having a relationship with Christ. And the RCC tends to focus on the crucifixion as how its followers should be hanging their heads low, unworthy to have a relationship with Christ. I've always liked the solemnity of Catholic mass, but again, it tends to focus a lot on the suffering Jesus and not the glorified Jesus. Just my take, anyway.

 

[David1967]

When a Mormon and a Baptist can agree that they are both "true Christians," God rejoices.

Thanks Katz. Actually I am a pretty open minded individual, that is why I say I am from a Baptist background and not just a Baptist. My personal belief is that God is much more inclusive than many in my denomination would think. I don't believe that God cares about our particular brand name of Christianity but rather what is in the heart of the believer.

 

[rusra02]

So if I may ask, just who is it among the different Christian faiths truly follow what Christ taught?

Jesus said; "I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.” (John 13:34,35) What group claiming to be Christian really love one another in an unbreakable bond of global brotherhood? Which group refuses to slaughter their brothers, or anyone else, at the behest of political rulers, even at the cost of their own lives? Who have successfully rid themselves of racial, social, and economic class distinctions? Most "Christian" religions preach love of neighbor, but some of the worst atrocities in history were perpetrated, aided, and prolonged by the approval and active participation of "Christian" religious leaders and their followers. I do not believe it is hard to find the true Christisn faith, those who truly follow Christ's teachings. I suggest learning what Christ taught, and then compare the teaching and deeds of professed "Christian" groups to decide for yourself who really are Christ's disciples.

 

[rusra02]

That's nice. I, too, believe that it is God's will that people know the truth. The issue, however, is whether 100% accuracy in understanding God's teachings is required in order for someone to be called a "true Christian." Just keep one thing in mind... Jesus never used the term "Christian." That's a manmade label. I'm not saying we should disregard it. I'm just saying that He never used the term and He never defined it. What He did do was tell His disciples that the way people would be able to recognize them was by the love they showed to one another. A Christian is a disciple of Jesus Christ. And if we love and care for one another because we know that He is our Savior and this is His will, we are "true Christians." He said nothing to imply that the word "Christian" should be used in such a narrow sense as you are using it.

Jesus told us to follow him. Jesus disciples were called "Christian" by "divine providence" according to Acts 11:26. I agree that Jesus said his true followers would be known by the love they had for one another. How do you think the mainstream churches stack up against that mark of discipleship? How many millions of professed "Christians" slaughtered one another in the 20th century, or were in heartfelt agreement with such carnage, for example? Calling oneself a Christian dies not make one such, any more than calling oneself a doctor makes one a doctor, IMO.

 

[David1967]

Jesus said; "I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love her. By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.” (John 13:34,35) What group claiming to be Christian really love one another in an unbreakable bond of global brotherhood? Which group refuses to slaughter their brothers, or anyone else, at the behest of political rulers, even at the cost of their own lives? Who have successfully rid themselves of racial, social, and economic class distinctions? Most "Christian" religions preach love of neighbor, but some of the worst atrocities in history were perpetrated, aided, and prolonged by the approval and active participation of "Christian" religious leaders and their followers. I do not believe it is hard to find the true Christisn faith, those who truly follow Christ's teachings. I suggest learning what Christ taught, and then compare the teaching and deeds of professed "Christian" groups to decide for yourself who really are Christ's disciples.

Easy question friend. I do study scripture and Im sure most people of most denominations do. And still people come up with differing understandings and views. That doesnt mean they are not true Christians. Even the Apostle Paul conceded that he understood things as "through a dim mirror". If Paul the great Apostle of Christ was humble enough to admit this then surely I can too. So, In ten words or less, do you agree with this or do you believe that there is only one specific brand name of believers that hold the title " true Christian"?

 

[David1967]

What group claiming to be Christian really love one another in an unbreakable bond of global brotherhood? Which group refuses to slaughter their brothers, or anyone else, at the behest of political rulers, even at the cost of their own lives? Who have successfully rid themselves of racial, social, and economic class distinctions?

Well my friend, if you wont just come out and say which group, I will have to guess, the Amish.

 

[Katzpur]

Calling oneself a Christian dies not make one such, any more than calling oneself a doctor makes one a doctor, IMO.

I'd say it's not quite the same thing. So far, all I've seen from you is a lot of generalities. Maybe you could clear things up once and for all by simply telling us what you believe the requirements are for someone to call himself a Christian and why Catholics don't qualify under your definition of the word.

 

[David1967]

I'd say it's not quite the same thing. So far, all I've seen from you is a lot of generalities. Maybe you could clear things up once and for all by simply telling us what you believe the requirements are for someone to call himself a Christian and why Catholics don't qualify under your definition of the word.

Its kinda like trying to get a straight answer out of a politician.

 

[rusra02]

Easy question friend. I do study scripture and Im sure most people of most denominations do. And still people come up with differing understandings and views. That doesnt mean they are not true Christians. Even the Apostle Paul conceded that he understood things as "through a dim mirror". If Paul the great Apostle of Christ was humble enough to admit this then surely I can too. So, In ten words or less, do you agree with this or do you believe that there is only one specific brand name of believers that hold the title " true Christian"?

It was Paul who wrote under inspiration from God; "One body there is, and one spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism." (Ephesians 4:4,5)