You are right that we are not to separate. The fact that an organized religion, with emphasis on glorifying saints is not of God. It is idolatry. You keep mentioning what Jesus said in a gospel, fair enough. However Paul explained it over and over how we are not to have idolatry. Complicating something that is simple. Yes, if you truly do believe Jesus died for sins, that may be enough. I say may because none of us knows how God will fully judge.
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Catholic - Christian (Same or Different)
- Thread starter Chance Kubeczka
- Start date
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
How? How is organizing ourselves into a community and honoring the people who have been the foundation of that community "not of God?" If you're going to say, "Fact," then show me the facts.
Idolatry is the belief that an object (or person) has divine power in and of itself. How is forming sacred community and honoring our forebears "idolatry?"
First of all, you haven't proven that these things are "idolatry." So, it seems to me that you're the one who's complicating matters by imbuing these things with some sort of dark, secret "purpose."
From the Old Testament:
“Thus says the Lord, ‘Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it moves not.’”
Jeremiah 10:2–4
This verse was speaking on idolatry. Paul speaks in Romans:
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Romans 1:21-25
“Thus says the Lord, ‘Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it moves not.’”
Jeremiah 10:2–4
This verse was speaking on idolatry. Paul speaks in Romans:
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Romans 1:21-25
Yes they are the same as far as by definition of Christian. Are there differing beliefs within their doctrines? Of course, but the same can be said within all denominations. Fact remains we are all trying to follow Jesus teachings to the best of our knowledge and ability. We must be very careful as to who we take it upon ourselves to deem Christian or not lest we become like one of the Johnny come lately sects that believe they have it all figured out and everybody for the last 2000 years just had it wrong. A protestant friend asked me if I believed there were any Catholics that were Christians. I replied "Yes, and there may even be some Protestants that are Christians."
Mitch M
Member
The Vatican/ Romantic Catholic Church did not *( Itself ) Produce an Italian /Latin Version of Scriptures until 400 *( Four Hundred Years ) After Christ. They had nothing to do with scriptures being distributed, Written, Translated or Followed.
instead, Rome gathered together OTHER mens Writings about the Scriptures. OTHER men's opinions and Other men's theology and thoughts.
This was the Hobby, Project and actions of the Vatican, for 400 Years. Other men's theology and thoughts. Not the Bible. ......The Bible is not what the Catholic Church was Spreading for 2000 Years.
............. But the Writings, opinions and of other Men of the Ages to come.
The Catholic church did not even Translate a Bible into Another language For 1600 years after Jesus.
one thousand six hundred years . ! It Took Catholics to Make a Bible into another Language *( Other than Latin )
The Bible is not really something that Catholics Love to share. But gathering and distributing OTHER mens Writings about the Scriptures. OTHER men's opinions and Other men's theology and thoughts. This is Most Sacred.
instead, Rome gathered together OTHER mens Writings about the Scriptures. OTHER men's opinions and Other men's theology and thoughts.
This was the Hobby, Project and actions of the Vatican, for 400 Years. Other men's theology and thoughts. Not the Bible. ......The Bible is not what the Catholic Church was Spreading for 2000 Years.
............. But the Writings, opinions and of other Men of the Ages to come.
The Catholic church did not even Translate a Bible into Another language For 1600 years after Jesus.
one thousand six hundred years . ! It Took Catholics to Make a Bible into another Language *( Other than Latin )
The Bible is not really something that Catholics Love to share. But gathering and distributing OTHER mens Writings about the Scriptures. OTHER men's opinions and Other men's theology and thoughts. This is Most Sacred.
LMAO.
Chance Kubeczka,
Since you are a Catholic, it would behoove you to take some time to research the doctrines Chatholics believe. Take any of their foundation beliefs, and see if they are Biblical. I have studied the different doctrines and have found that the Catholic faith, in the doctrines they believe, ls not supported by Bible truth, John 4:23,24. Truth means much to God, as it is stated in the Holy Scriptures that God will destroy all who do not love the truth, 2Thes 2:9-13. The truth is; not one of the foundation doctrines of the Catholic faith is supported by Bible truth. Search and see for yourself!!!
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
So the belief that Jesus Christ is our Savior is not not supported by the Bible, huh?
By "biblical" he simply means that which conforms to his (most likely American) Protestant presuppositions.
I have no doubt many Catholics are sincere and kind people. The question at hand is whether Catholicism and Christian are the same or different, not whether individuals are loving people. Was the Catholic Church in Rwanda loving and kind during the genocide there? Was the Catholic Church loving and kind to the holocaust victims before and during WW2? Or to the millions of innocents slaughtered in that war? Again, the facts speak for themselves, to me at least.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Many Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians and Baptists are sincere and kind people, too. Then again, many aren't. No doubt a lot of KKK members showed up in their local Southern Baptists Churches every Sunday morning. There are differences between Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian and Baptist doctrines, too, but when you lump all Protestants together as "Christians" and call the Church from which they broke "non-Christian," that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. No individual has the right to decide which professing Christians are the real deal and which ones aren't.
Thank you for that Katz. you are correct.
I think it is important that everyone decide for themselves who are true Christians and who are not. Otherwise, how would we know if we have found the true Christian faith that Christ taught, or one of the "Many [who] will say to [Christ] in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’" (Matthew 7:22,23)
When I read that verse I cant help but think of the Charismatic televangelists who have made such a circus (sadly) of the Christian church.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Catholicism is a sub category of Christianity.
Yes, they do come to mind, So do mainstream 'Christian" churches, IMO, that claim to follow the Christ, but are obviously not following in Christ's footsteps. As Titus 1:16 describes them; "They publicly declare that they know God, but they disown him by their works, because they are detestable and disobedient and not approved for good work of any sort."When I read that verse I cant help but think of the Charismatic televangelists who have made such a circus (sadly) of the Christian church.
If I may ask, What branch of Christianity are you associated with?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I'm gathering from what you're saying that you think that all "true Christians" belong to the same denomination or are at least in agreement on 100% of Christian theology. Would that be an accurate way of putting it?
See, I believe that it is possible for even the best, truest, most genuinely Christian person to be wrong about one or two (or many, actually) points of doctrine. We each need to decide for ourselves what we want to believe, but that doesn't have to involve passing judgment on our fellow human beings who believe differently. If you believe that Jesus Christ was the Savior sent to earth to atone for the sins of mankind and to show us the path we must follow to return to God, then I'd say you are a "true Christian." I'm sorry you don't feel the same way about me.