DreadFish
Cosmic Vagabond
That darned counterintuitiveness of Taoism again.
It's simple... too simple... :thud:
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That darned counterintuitiveness of Taoism again.
Thing is, how individual are you really? By the basic meaning of the word, it would imply something that can't be divided into more parts. If you can actually find a part of you that is individual, you're one step ahead of almost everybody else.
I wouldn't really classify Taoism as really left or right-handed, its just a naturalistic school of thought.
Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 20
I am nourished by the great mother.
So isn't wanting to unite with Nature RHP?
On three occasions I've made the experiment of putting a Taijitu symbol on my shrine. At the beginning it gave me a good, intense energy; especially for healing myself and for sleeping. e.g. at night I repeated the affirmation "my chi circulates perfectly" and that made me sleep (I don't know why). My idea was generally, to use it to pass from one pole to another. e.g. if I was cold, I passed to heat (yang) and I felt better, etc.
But after a few days I couldn't keep it there because I eventually couldn't stand the energy. So much so that I couldn't sleep, so I removed it at night. But that wasn't enough. I once dreamt I was burning alive and I started to feel that way (although in a much milder way than in dreams) while I was awake. I was nervous; "accelerated" and my skin felt like it was receiving infrared rays or something; it was burning and uncomfortable. The more I remembered and concentrated on the symbol on my shrine and the worse it got.
No other symbol had such powerful effect on me so far. Who knows why? Maybe I was misinterpreting it like the (+) (-) poles of a battery and I was overcharging myself with chi? Did I have a conflict between light and darkness which I didn't know how to harmonize?
It would be interesting for me to be able to use the Taijitu in a good way because my intention is one day to be able to evolve spiritually without the help of any deities (at most, archetypes); I think it would be a wonderful tool. If you have any tips, links, books, etc. on how to use it I'd appreciate it. Thank you.
No, but I read something similar before. The problem is I still don't understand how come some opposites can't be in conflict instead of cooperation or harmony.
e.g. a girl can be pregnant or not, someone is dead or not, there is no middle term. If you refer to natural principles then they can be in harmony, but if you refer to ALL concepts and ideas, then I still don't see how ying and yang can't "fight" each other.
It sounds like you need to understand the next step of ming or clear seeing: wu wei and wei wu wei.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei
Try to associate the taijitu with wu wei, rather than yin and yang fighting each other. Associating yin and yang as opposing forces rather than means of change will obscure wu wei.
Well in my dream/vision the white man just stayed standing on the left side of my bed and emmitted rays of an intense white light from his hand palms directed to my torso and the black woman passed her hands over me to distribute the light and darkness to the right places; also depositing energy and removing the excess of it. She seemed to be modelling energy. If they wanted to tell me something they did it by sending thoughts; they didn't open their mouths so I heard no voice.
The white man was so luminous I could barely see his face's features. Similar to this priest but with more adorned and shining, silk clothes:
http://kaleidoscope.cultural-china.com/chinaWH/upload/upfiles/2010-06/25/zhang_sanfeng_%E5%BC%A0%E4%B8%89%E4%B8%B0a_semimythical_chinese_taoist_priest36b1ea4ecc58c8a78914.jpg
The black woman was naked, attractive, with caucasian face features and yellow luminous eyes, somewhat like this:
http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/Digital/Digital0702/Digital070200009/749376-wild-panther-woman.jpg
I don't really know. The more I think about it and the more I find opposites in every spiritual and material thing.
Everything changes. Old (unstable) yang becomes young (stable) yin, and old (unstable) yin becomes young (stable) yang.
Perhaps thinking of harmony of opposites as "coordination?"
Thanks for the tasty tidbit for contemplation!
I would definitely emphasize that yin and yang are not opposing forces that compete with each other; they are more like complementary forces, each dependent on the other for it's own essence and ebbing and flowing according to the other.
I think it's a common and unfortunate misunderstanding of Taoism that it's dualistic and about opposing forces reaching harmony. Rather, I see that the philosophy illustrates ultimate non-duality through the cooperation of opposites. The point is that the opposites are never actually separate but complementary.
You can't define one extreme without the opposite extreme. There are also spectrums along opposites, there's not just black and white, they blend into various shades of grey depending on how much more of one color is blended in. On a seesaw, the two ends are connected to each other and it's angle varies depending on how much weight is applied to either end. When a seesaw is left alone, a properly functioning seesaw naturally balances itself, and if a force is applied to it, it naturally yields to compensate for the extra force applied.
Sort of like chapter 77 in the Tao Te Ching:
The Tao of heaven is like the bending of a bow.
The high is lowered, and the low is raised.
If the string is too long, it is shortened;
If there is not enough, it is made longer.
It is my understanding that wu wei does not involve will in one's actions. A True Man does not contemplate his actions in a given situation, they just happen naturally. To contemplate how to act is contrivance. Just like how a tree sways when wind blows through it, a True Man spontaneously acts entirely appropriate to the given situation because he is entirely natural.
("True Man" Is synonymous with the "master" which the Tao Te Ching talks about . I just like the word better )
Hmmm even if someone acts sincerely according what he really wants; is he acting as a True Man? Or as he was programmed to act by Society since birth?
See Tao Te Ching 38. Authoritarian social engineering is the furthest from the Tao.
High etiquette takes contrived actionAnd upon encountering no responseUses arms to pull othersTherefore, the Tao is lost, and then virtueVirtue is lost, and then benevolenceBenevolence is lost, and then righteousnessRighteousness is lost, and then etiquetteThose who have etiquetteare a thin shell of loyalty and sincerityAnd the beginning of chaosThose with foreknowledgeAre the flowers of the TaoAnd the beginning of ignoranceTherefore the great person:Abides in substance, and does not dwell on the thin shellAbides in the real, and does not dwell on the flowerThus they discard that and take this
I guess that's getting into the nitty-gritty of it. Until one is considerably develouped, it can be easy to mistake ego-supporting compulsive mental processes for natural action. I guess its a matter of seeing clearly what's going on in your mind, thus allowing you to notice what stimuli your mind is reacting to when it thinks a certain thought or wants to perform a certain action. This clarity is what vipassana style meditation allows for.
Im not sure if im being clear but, does that make sense?
EDIT: I think that, when action is truly natural, there is no mistaking it
You know, after mulling it over for a bit, the taijitu really doesn't belong on an altar, imo. Ritual is about manipulating causal factors, whereas wei wu wei and "pure consciousness" is freed from traceable causality--it is ineffable and spontaneous. Something to think about.
LOL, Taoism seems so simple, however it can become so confusing for us average Westerners.Maybe I'll just stick to Kabbalah.
Anyway according to what I read so far I begin to understand why Left Hand Path people don't like Taoism. Despite some Taoists look for immortality, it seems to be about surrendering to the natural order and uniting with a universal "God" so to speak (I suppose Tao includes both personality and impersonality). In a way it seems very RHP. So where does individuality stay in that? In the "Te"?
Thing is, how individual are you really? By the basic meaning of the word, it would imply something that can't be divided into more parts. If you can actually find a part of you that is individual, you're one step ahead of almost everybody else.
I wouldn't really classify Taoism as really left or right-handed, its just a naturalistic school of thought.
It's generally argued that the "immortality" that some Taoists pursue is not a literal physical immortality but instead refers to the "deathethless" state that is realized by a person who realizes they are not separate
As well as chapter 48
In the pursuit of learning, every day something is acquired.
In the pursuit of Tao, every day something is dropped.
Less and less is done
Until non-action is achieved.
When nothing is done, nothing is left undone.
The world is ruled by letting things take their course.
It cannot be ruled by interfering.
That darned counterintuitiveness of Taoism again.
It's simple... too simple...
Maybe I am one step ahead in some things; because while I was a Vaishnava, Krishna once revealed to me the nature of the atma in a vision. He showed himself as a Krishna made of other little Krishnas, which were in turn made of other smaller Krishnas... and I could have continued forever; because what he wanted to tell me is you can't really divide the true self; the idea of an eternal person itself. In another vision Krishna also asked me to cut him in half and two copies of him formed. But it was always him.
So, there is no universal God; only billions of eternal, indestructible individuals who will all someday exist just for loving and playing. Isn't that great?
But I tried to follow that Hinduism path again and again and there's always some problem; the last one was social. People in general, my parents, my workmates, most of my friends, turn into "hostile scornful mocker" mode when I'm in that path. So much so that Radha and Krishna finally transmitted to me that some people were laughing at my back and I'd better go back to Jesus at least in appearance; otherwise I'd loose everything; my things, my job, etc. I asked for protection, but then I'd have needed protection from 90% of Society!
Pretty much the only tolerated paths here in Argentina are atheism and Christianity.
The other obstacle was that I was tired of expecting things from the gods instead of just depending on myself. Now I feel that Jesus (which I think it's the same Krishna really) is guiding me to becoming independent. Which has nothing to do with traditional Christianity, LOL, but I don't care about being in a formal religion anyway.
So isn't wanting to unite with Nature RHP?
That sounds so Wiccan!
Unite with what?
The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal TaoThe name that can be named is not the eternal name--first two lines of the Tao Te Ching
Wanting" won't get you to the "essence" (which is contrary to the first two lines)
Thus, constantly without desire, one observes its essenceConstantly with desire, one observes its manifestations
--fifth and sixth lines of the Tao Te Ching
These two emerge together but differ in nameThe unity is said to be the mysteryMystery of mysteries, the door to all wonders--seventh through ninth lines of the Tao Te Ching emphasizes non-duality--not left, not right. (Although I would say that Taoism prefers the left, according to its own definition of the left.)
The "interference" that you lose is the culturally enforced bias, so you can have ming, or clarity. "High etiquette" is authoritarian cultural conditioning. This is what you work to lose through the Taoist lhp of contemplation. See the part highlighted in blue below:This is where I disagree with Taoism, and I also think it contradicts itself, dependent upon the definition of "interfering" It is in the ability to discernewhere interfering is neccesary, and where it is not which is the key to widsom. This is the two aspects of the yin-yang. Sometimes interfering is the "course", but then again is interfering letting things take their course or not?As well as chapter 48
In the pursuit of learning, every day something is acquired.
In the pursuit of Tao, every day something is dropped.
Less and less is done
Until non-action is achieved.
When nothing is done, nothing is left undone.
The world is ruled by letting things take their course.
It cannot be ruled by interfering.
See Tao Te Ching 38. Authoritarian social engineering is the furthest from the Tao.
High etiquette takes contrived action
And upon encountering no response
Uses arms to pull others
Therefore, the Tao is lost, and then virtue
Virtue is lost, and then benevolence
Benevolence is lost, and then righteousness
Righteousness is lost, and then etiquette
Those who have etiquette
are a thin shell of loyalty and sincerity
And the beginning of chaos
Those with foreknowledge
Are the flowers of the Tao
And the beginning of ignorance
Therefore the great person:
Abides in substance, and does not dwell on the thin shell
Abides in the real, and does not dwell on the flower
Thus they discard that and take this
Would you like a Taoist altar setup? I'm sure I can dig it out of my mind if you'd like it. It might be more comfortable for you than the actual taijitu.On three occasions I've made the experiment of putting a Taijitu symbol on my shrine. At the beginning it gave me a good, intense energy; especially for healing myself and for sleeping. e.g. at night I repeated the affirmation "my chi circulates perfectly" and that made me sleep (I don't know why). My idea was generally, to use it to pass from one pole to another. e.g. if I was cold, I passed to heat (yang) and I felt better, etc.
But after a few days I couldn't keep it there because I eventually couldn't stand the energy. So much so that I couldn't sleep, so I removed it at night. But that wasn't enough. I once dreamt I was burning alive and I started to feel that way (although in a much milder way than in dreams) while I was awake. I was nervous; "accelerated" and my skin felt like it was receiving infrared rays or something; it was burning and uncomfortable. The more I remembered and concentrated on the symbol on my shrine and the worse it got.
No other symbol had such powerful effect on me so far. Who knows why? Maybe I was misinterpreting it like the (+) (-) poles of a battery and I was overcharging myself with chi? Did I have a conflict between light and darkness which I didn't know how to harmonize?
It would be interesting for me to be able to use the Taijitu in a good way because my intention is one day to be able to evolve spiritually without the help of any deities (at most, archetypes); I think it would be a wonderful tool. If you have any tips, links, books, etc. on how to use it I'd appreciate it. Thank you.
So the "white man" emitted the light and the "black woman" directed the light were it needed to go?
Yeah, I was about to say that chick is hot lol.
I have a natural attraction to the spirit of the panther myself.
Nothing wrong with some Wiccan beliefs in my opinion.
Needing protection from 90% of society will just make you stronger
(about the Taijitu)it would be a great way to promote growth. You keep it on your alter until you begin to feel "overcharged", then take it off and analyze the defeciencies in your energy system until you are able to handle the energy on a regular basis.
Kabbalah is the manipulation of the sides of the yin-yang, used wisely it can promote balance, used unwisely it can promote the greatest of unbalance.
crossfire, yes I'd love to know which taoist altar/shrine setup are you thinking about.
The Sun and moon candles signify the eyes, the windows to the soul.
Water is yang, tea is yin
rice is the result of the interplay between yin and yang.
The five plates of different colored fruits represent the five Taoist elements;
black=water, white=metal, yellow=earth, red=fire, green=wood.
The incense burner is the lower "stove" center in the body where the three energies, jing, chi, and shen, are purified. (signified by the three sticks of incense.)
Speaking about eyes; does someone know why does Hollywood put the Eye of Providence in almost every movie?
It's dangerous to question these things. I dont know what you're talking about.
...
I have to go now >_>
In the context of the elements, water is old yin and fire is old yang. In the context of bagua (trigrams-ways of change,) Kan (middle son-water) is young yang and Li (middle daughter-fire) is young yin.I thought water was ying and fire was yang.
The sun candle is usually gold, and the moon candle is usually silver.Great, exactly what I was looking for. I once bought a silver candle to symbolize the mixture and balance of yin and yang, but I think your idea is better.
LOL, I thought maybe the reason is, they want people to find out about spiritual/religious subjects to wake up a little. Or maybe it's just to thank Horus for something.
I was thinking you were referring to the Masons
In the context of the elements, water is old yin and fire is old yang. In the context of bagua (trigrams-ways of change,) Kan (middle son-water) is young yang and Li (middle daughter-fire) is young yin.
The sun candle is usually gold, and the moon candle is usually silver.
I don't know of any to recommend. Sorry.Please recommend me a book to go deeper into this subject of what is yin, what is yang, etc.
Yes, probably the Masons or the US branch of the Illuminati. The Church made them a bad fame, but after all, George Washington was a Mason and all South American independence heroes too (San Martín, Bolívar, Belgrano, etc). It all depends on how they used the knowledge they gained in those secret societies.