Can't stand the energy of the Taijitu, why?

[agorman]

On three occasions I've made the experiment of putting a Taijitu symbol on my shrine. At the beginning it gave me a good, intense energy; especially for healing myself and for sleeping. e.g. at night I repeated the affirmation "my chi circulates perfectly" and that made me sleep (I don't know why). My idea was generally, to use it to pass from one pole to another. e.g. if I was cold, I passed to heat (yang) and I felt better, etc.

But after a few days I couldn't keep it there because I eventually couldn't stand the energy. So much so that I couldn't sleep, so I removed it at night. But that wasn't enough. I once dreamt I was burning alive and I started to feel that way (although in a much milder way than in dreams) while I was awake. I was nervous; "accelerated" and my skin felt like it was receiving infrared rays or something; it was burning and uncomfortable. The more I remembered and concentrated on the symbol on my shrine and the worse it got.

No other symbol had such powerful effect on me so far. Who knows why? Maybe I was misinterpreting it like the (+) (-) poles of a battery and I was overcharging myself with chi? Did I have a conflict between light and darkness which I didn't know how to harmonize?

It would be interesting for me to be able to use the Taijitu in a good way because my intention is one day to be able to evolve spiritually without the help of any deities (at most, archetypes); I think it would be a wonderful tool. If you have any tips, links, books, etc. on how to use it I'd appreciate it. Thank you.

 

[crossfire]

Have you read this yet? (It's a Neo-Confucian document, so you might want to keep that in mind.)

Chapter 1:EXPLANATION OF THE DIAGRAM OF THE SUPREME ULTIMATE

 

[agorman]

Have you read this yet? (It's a Neo-Confucian document, so you might want to keep that in mind.)

Chapter 1:EXPLANATION OF THE DIAGRAM OF THE SUPREME ULTIMATE

No, but I read something similar before. The problem is I still don't understand how come some opposites can't be in conflict instead of cooperation or harmony.

e.g. a girl can be pregnant or not, someone is dead or not, there is no middle term. If you refer to natural principles then they can be in harmony, but if you refer to ALL concepts and ideas, then I still don't see how ying and yang can't "fight" each other.

 

[crossfire]

No, but I read something similar before. The problem is I still don't understand how come some opposites can't be in conflict instead of cooperation or harmony.

e.g. a girl can be pregnant or not, someone is dead or not, there is no middle term. If you refer to natural principles then they can be in harmony, but if you refer to ALL concepts and ideas, then I still don't see how ying and yang can't "fight" each other.

Everything changes. Old (unstable) yang becomes young (stable) yin, and old (unstable) yin becomes young (stable) yang.

As for yin and yang working in harmony--I refer to a line from the Taijitu Shuo linked above:

Therefore it is said, "In establishing the Tao of Heaven yin and yang are spoken of; in establishing the Tao of Earth the soft and the hard are spoken of; in establishing the Tao of man humanity and righteousness are spoken of."​

Humanity and righteousness do not have to "fight" each other. This is the Tao of man--harmony.

 

[nash8]

No, but I read something similar before. The problem is I still don't understand how come some opposites can't be in conflict instead of cooperation or harmony.

e.g. a girl can be pregnant or not, someone is dead or not, there is no middle term. If you refer to natural principles then they can be in harmony, but if you refer to ALL concepts and ideas, then I still don't see how ying and yang can't "fight" each other.

To what degree is a girl preganant? 3 months, 6 months, full term? When you are dead, what part of you is "dead"? Is their a part of you that is never dead? Is there a part of you that is always "dead"? Yin and Yang can most definitely fight each other, and they most definitley can be in conflict.

The key for me atleast, is realizing the one way in which they aren't in conflict. If you can realize one way in which polar opposites aren't in conflicts then you eliminate the absolutism of the concept of opposition. However, I agree this is not always an easy task. This is one of the fundamentals for wisdom in my opinion.

And as far as your original post goes, as I said in the other thread. If you personally viewed the YinYang as opposities fighting against themselves, then the energy would be interpreted that way, and you would be essentially fighting yourself by taking in two opposing aspects of energy, as yin and yang can most definitely oppose each other given a specific perspective.

The dream you had, what did each specific aspect do? The white man did what to heal you, and the black woman did what to heal you?

I have a question for you, how many things do you view the yin-yang as?

 

[crossfire]

It sounds like you need to understand the next step of ming or clear seeing: wu wei and wei wu wei.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei

Try to associate the taijitu with wu wei, rather than yin and yang fighting each other. Associating yin and yang as opposing forces rather than means of change will obscure wu wei.

 

[agorman]

The dream you had, what did each specific aspect do? The white man did what to heal you, and the black woman did what to heal you?

Well in my dream/vision the white man just stayed standing on the left side of my bed and emmitted rays of an intense white light from his hand palms directed to my torso and the black woman passed her hands over me to distribute the light and darkness to the right places; also depositing energy and removing the excess of it. She seemed to be modelling energy. If they wanted to tell me something they did it by sending thoughts; they didn't open their mouths so I heard no voice.

The white man was so luminous I could barely see his face's features. Similar to this priest but with more adorned and shining, silk clothes:

http://kaleidoscope.cultural-china....chinese_taoist_priest36b1ea4ecc58c8a78914.jpg

The black woman was naked, attractive, with caucasian face features and yellow luminous eyes, somewhat like this:

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/Digital/Digital0702/Digital070200009/749376-wild-panther-woman.jpg

I have a question for you, how many things do you view the yin-yang as?

I don't really know. The more I think about it and the more I find opposites in every spiritual and material thing.

crossfire, after reading that article about wu wei I suppose it means something like the Buddhist "right action". A wise man knows when to act and not to act, so harmony is preserved.

 

[crossfire]

I don't really know. The more I think about it and the more I find opposites in every spiritual and material thing.

Perhaps thinking of harmony of opposites as "coordination?"

crossfire, after reading that article about wu wei I suppose it means something like the Buddhist "right action". A wise man knows when to act and not to act, so harmony is preserved.

Hmm, yes, I would agree that there are parallels between Buddhist sila (virtue, morality,) and samadhana (harmony, coordination) and the Taoist te (virtue) and harmony. However, the Buddhist Right Action is expressed in the Eightfold Path as abstaining from unskillful actions like murder, stealing, and sexual misconduct. Wu wei is uncontrived. {LOL, like Nibbana is beyond concepts!}

Thanks for the tasty tidbit for contemplation!

 

[DreadFish]

I would definitely emphasize that yin and yang are not opposing forces that compete with each other; they are more like complementary forces, each dependent on the other for it's own essence and ebbing and flowing according to the other.

I think it's a common and unfortunate misunderstanding of Taoism that it's dualistic and about opposing forces reaching harmony. Rather, I see that the philosophy illustrates ultimate non-duality through the cooperation of opposites. The point is that the opposites are never actually separate but complementary.

You can't define one extreme without the opposite extreme. There are also spectrums along opposites, there's not just black and white, they blend into various shades of grey depending on how much more of one color is blended in. On a seesaw, the two ends are connected to each other and it's angle varies depending on how much weight is applied to either end. When a seesaw is left alone, a properly functioning seesaw naturally balances itself, and if a force is applied to it, it naturally yields to compensate for the extra force applied.

Sort of like chapter 77 in the Tao Te Ching:

The Tao of heaven is like the bending of a bow.
The high is lowered, and the low is raised.
If the string is too long, it is shortened;
If there is not enough, it is made longer.

 

[DreadFish]

crossfire, after reading that article about wu wei I suppose it means something like the Buddhist "right action". A wise man knows when to act and not to act, so harmony is preserved.

It is my understanding that wu wei does not involve will in one's actions. A True Man does not contemplate his actions in a given situation, they just happen naturally. To contemplate how to act is contrivance. Just like how a tree sways when wind blows through it, a True Man spontaneously acts entirely appropriate to the given situation because he is entirely natural.

("True Man" Is synonymous with the "master" which the Tao Te Ching talks about . I just like the word better )

 

[agorman]

a True Man spontaneously acts entirely appropriate to the given situation because he is entirely natural.

Hmmm even if someone acts sincerely according what he really wants; is he acting as a True Man? Or as he was programmed to act by Society since birth?

 

[crossfire]

Hmmm even if someone acts sincerely according what he really wants; is he acting as a True Man? Or as he was programmed to act by Society since birth?

See Tao Te Ching 38. Authoritarian social engineering is the furthest from the Tao.

High etiquette takes contrived action
And upon encountering no response
Uses arms to pull others

Therefore, the Tao is lost, and then virtue
Virtue is lost, and then benevolence
Benevolence is lost, and then righteousness
Righteousness is lost, and then etiquette
Those who have etiquette
are a thin shell of loyalty and sincerity
And the beginning of chaos
Those with foreknowledge
Are the flowers of the Tao
And the beginning of ignorance
Therefore the great person:
Abides in substance, and does not dwell on the thin shell
Abides in the real, and does not dwell on the flower
Thus they discard that and take this​

 

[DreadFish]

Hmmm even if someone acts sincerely according what he really wants; is he acting as a True Man? Or as he was programmed to act by Society since birth?

I guess that's getting into the nitty-gritty of it. Until one is considerably develouped, it can be easy to mistake ego-supporting compulsive mental processes for natural action. I guess its a matter of seeing clearly what's going on in your mind, thus allowing you to notice what stimuli your mind is reacting to when it thinks a certain thought or wants to perform a certain action. This clarity is what vipassana style meditation allows for.

Im not sure if im being clear but, does that make sense?

EDIT: I think that, when action is truly natural, there is no mistaking it

 

[crossfire]

This is a good thread and a great conversation. I'm gonna rate it 5 stars. :yes:

 

[crossfire]

You know, after mulling it over for a bit, the taijitu really doesn't belong on an altar, imo. Ritual is about manipulating causal factors, whereas wei wu wei and "pure consciousness" is freed from traceable causality--it is ineffable and spontaneous. Something to think about.

 

[agorman]

You know, after mulling it over for a bit, the taijitu really doesn't belong on an altar, imo. Ritual is about manipulating causal factors, whereas wei wu wei and "pure consciousness" is freed from traceable causality--it is ineffable and spontaneous. Something to think about.

LOL, Taoism seems so simple, however it can become so confusing for us average Westerners. Maybe I'll just stick to Kabbalah.

Anyway according to what I read so far I begin to understand why Left Hand Path people don't like Taoism. Despite some Taoists look for immortality, it seems to be about surrendering to the natural order and uniting with a universal "God" so to speak (I suppose Tao includes both personality and impersonality). In a way it seems very RHP. So where does individuality stay in that? In the "Te"?

 

[DreadFish]

LOL, Taoism seems so simple, however it can become so confusing for us average Westerners. Maybe I'll just stick to Kabbalah.

Anyway according to what I read so far I begin to understand why Left Hand Path people don't like Taoism. Despite some Taoists look for immortality, it seems to be about surrendering to the natural order and uniting with a universal "God" so to speak (I suppose Tao includes both personality and impersonality). In a way it seems very RHP. So where does individuality stay in that? In the "Te"?

Thing is, how individual are you really? By the basic meaning of the word, it would imply something that can't be divided into more parts. If you can actually find a part of you that is individual, you're one step ahead of almost everybody else.

I wouldn't really classify Taoism as really left or right-handed, its just a naturalistic school of thought.

It's generally argued that the "immortality" that some Taoists pursue is not a literal physical immortality but instead refers to the "deathless" state that is realized by a person who realizes they are not separate from the whole. No "I" to be born, no "I" to die = immortality.

 

[crossfire]

LOL, Taoism seems so simple, however it can become so confusing for us average Westerners. Maybe I'll just stick to Kabbalah.

Anyway according to what I read so far I begin to understand why Left Hand Path people don't like Taoism. Despite some Taoists look for immortality, it seems to be about surrendering to the natural order and uniting with a universal "God" so to speak (I suppose Tao includes both personality and impersonality). In a way it seems very RHP. So where does individuality stay in that? In the "Te"?

See Tao Te Ching 20.

 

[DreadFish]

See Tao Te Ching 20.

As well as chapter 48

In the pursuit of learning, every day something is acquired.
In the pursuit of Tao, every day something is dropped.

Less and less is done
Until non-action is achieved.
When nothing is done, nothing is left undone.

The world is ruled by letting things take their course.
It cannot be ruled by interfering.

 

[crossfire]

That darned counterintuitiveness of Taoism again.