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Can you get to the highest level of heaven without being married in an LDS temple ???

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by FFH, Sep 1, 2007.

  1. FFH

    FFH New Member

    Messages:
    12,063
    According to LDS doctrine, no, but if one dies without entering into this sacred covenant; who would have entered into this sacred new and everlasting covenant of marriage, as performed in holy/sacred LDS temples, if they had had the chance, or had been of age, a way will be provided whereby they can enter into this covenant with the person of their choosing..

    This is LDS gospel according to how I understand it.

    This is a question Hope asked in another thread..

    Paul will be able to enter into this same sacred marriage covenant, if he meets all the necessary requirements. A way will be provided for him, whereby he can obtain the highest level/degree of heaven, if he so chooses and meets all the requirements necessary to enter into the highest level of heaven, where God the Father and the Son dwell.

    God will provide a way whereby all who meet the necessary requirements, will be able to enter into this sacred covenant of marriage (the new and everlasting covenant of marriage) as performed in sacred/holy LDS temples.

    That's all I'm going to say for now...

    See section 132 of the Doctrine and Covenants, for details, by clicking onto this link: Doctrine and Covenants 132
     
  2. jonny

    jonny New Member

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    6,260
    To answer your question - not unless God has some other plans after this life. You can get to the Celestial Kingdom - Just not the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom.
     
  3. FFH

    FFH New Member

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    12,063
    Right, there are three levels in the Celestial kingdom, the Celestial kingdom being the highest glory/heaven.

    Celestial glory/heaven (three more levels within this glory, God the Father and the Son dwelling in the highest level of this glory)
    Terrestrial glory
    Telestial glory
    Outer Darkness

    In order to obtain the highest level of the highest glory of heaven, one must enter into the "new and everlasting covenant of marriage" as explained in this section Doctrine and Covenants 132 for those who are interested...
     
  4. s2a

    s2a Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator

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    3,255
    Religion:
    Really?
    Perhaps, in order that non-LDS Christians and the other assorted non-believers alike might better understand the LDS notions of "heaven", you might enlighten sc=uch heaven-bound hopefuls with the details of the transcendent route ordained within LDS theology...including the heavenly way-stations of "celestial creations" (some might call "planets") named (respectively) Oliblish, and Kolob (which any suitably engaged couple contemplating marriage must consider if they wish to be, at some point, appointed ruling demigods of the cosmos themselves).

    And let's at least introduce (as a matter of contrast/compare) the LDS "version" of "Hell" as explained in D&C 76:98-106, which of course--in the feeble minds of us mere sheepish humans--"surpasses all understanding" (D&C 76:89). How convenient. How...vague.

    And...just out of curiosity...since the "saved" (and even then, only the "best of the best", mind you...) will live on (presumably enough) for billions upon trillions of years of perpetual immortal rule and managed dictate over the entirety of the "heavenly" cosmos--can they ever escape the same ole' heavenly digs they have been "gifted", and move to some nicer beach-front properties instead; after say, the first trillion years or so?

    Even we mere mortals, existent within this realm, in this blinking sliver of time...are free to move about and take residence within the forests, the mountains, the plains, or the ocean's shores...and perhaps gain/appreciate the physical change and newfound perspective afforded by natural vistas and alternative vantage points that even this one little blue planet might present (to those willing to explore and wonder upon) as "new".

    Do I have to sit by "God's Throne" for all eternity as some mid-level manager of the cosmos? I'll admit that I've had some "bosses" that I came to respect and admire (and even deemed as fair, just, wise, and likable), but I wouldn't want to be forced to live with them, or be their mandated next-door neighbor. If your god wants me to strive towards that utopian end/goal (as a matter of expressed and practiced faith)...then He'd better acquaint me with some representative examples in this realm from better which to choose, in numerous and voluminously informed examples of exercised "free will" .

    If I, as a shopper of suitably acceptable "vehicles" of expediently reliable transport (or "salvation")...only consider the initial "pitch" from a artfully skilled salesman...should I then choose to divest all of my skepticism and reasonable doubts about any unsubstantiated promises made--with no examples of their fulfillment--simply as a matter of unquestioning trust in the claims of the salesman alone? Do you buy your own personal cars that way? If not, then how do you know (or claim, as certain and unequivocal fact) that this ONE infallible vehicle of an LDS "transport to heaven" will even get you there?

    If your reply is (in essence) "I don't know"...then I submit that your "truth" is no better than my straightforward and (thereupon) reasonable doubts regarding the claims of an existent LDS "heaven", or any such similar realms of "afterlife" condos and "gated community" McMansions in the sky.
     
  5. Seyorni

    Seyorni Well-Known Member

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    12,293
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    I think one can achieve Samadhi or Moksha without ever having heard of LDS theology.
     
    ayani likes this.
  6. FFH

    FFH New Member

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    12,063
    Wow, I can understand Revelation to some degree, but you are by far more of a mystery to me compared to that book...

    You want proof of the existence of heaven/Celestial kingdom, there is none, other than our own bodies, some being Celestial, others being Terrestrial, while the majority of humanity being and possessing Telestial bodies, perfectly and specifically designed and created for our life and the choices we've made and will make.

    It's all there plain as day in the Joseph Smith inspired version of the Old and New Testament, Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and the Doctrine and Covenants....

    Most will never read all these forms of inspired/revealed scripture, not even all LDS members...

    Our bodies are living proof there is a God, who designed and created our complex human systems..as is our universe a statement or a witness of the existance of a supreme creator.

    This earth is patterned after the heavens, exisiting in a mortal state...heaven being in an immortal perfect state, no pain, death, sorrow, suffering, war, disease, etc...

    Want proof of heaven, just look at this earth, it was patterned after heaven...it does get better than this though...much much much better..

    I've heard the sounds of heaven and felt what it will be like to be there, it's worrth all the pain, suffering, discomfort, etc. we go through in this life, just to eventually be a part of a better world..
     
  7. Halcyon

    Halcyon Lord of the Badgers

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    6,411
    Why do people have to be married to enter the highest heaven?

    What if one never finds anyone they love enough to marry, should one marry someone they don't love in order to enter the highest heaven?
     
  8. jonny

    jonny New Member

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    6,260
    The earth you're standing on right now will become the Celestial Kindom, so I don't think it'll be too hard for you to find the route there.

    D&C 88
    25 And again, verily I say unto you, the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom, for it filleth the measure of its creation, and transgresseth not the law—
    26 Wherefore, it shall be sanctified; yea, notwithstanding it shall die, it shall be quickened again, and shall abide the power by which it is quickened, and the righteous shall inherit it.


    Even for you this criticism is pretty ridiculous. What would you like - a travel guide with pictures?

    Who knows? Who cares? I don't. Your guess is as good as mine.

    You seem to think of heaven as a business arrangement. I think of it more as a family arrangement.

    Through revelation. I can guarantee you though that you're far from a place in your life where you could receive it.

    As long as there are some chicken nuggets in those McMansions, I'll be cool with it. :cool:
     
  9. jonny

    jonny New Member

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    6,260
    Something about man not being complete without the woman and woman not being complete without the man.

    A marriage won't survive on love alone. There are a lot of other factors that come into play. My guess is that you can grow to love just about anyone if you open your heart.
     
  10. Halcyon

    Halcyon Lord of the Badgers

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    6,411
    Can a widow/er remarry? If so can they get their new marriage sealed in a Temple?

    What about divorced people?
     
  11. jonny

    jonny New Member

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    6,260
    They can remarry in the temple. Some of them will get married "for time" instead of sealed "for time and all eternity." Others do get sealed. In the past, men could be sealed to multiple women, but women could only be sealed to one man. I think this may have changed, but I'm not sure.

    They can receive a "cancellation of sealing" (commonly referred to as a temple divorce) from the church and get resealed in the temple.
     
  12. Halcyon

    Halcyon Lord of the Badgers

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    6,411
    Do both people have to be Mormon to get sealed and reach the highest heaven, or just the man?
     
  13. jonny

    jonny New Member

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    6,260
    You can't be sealed to yourself. It is a marriage ceremony and requires both a man and a woman to participate. Both need to be worthy.
     
  14. Halcyon

    Halcyon Lord of the Badgers

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    6,411
    Lol, no i mean can a Mormon man marry and get sealed to say a Cathlolic woman, or even an atheist? Or do you both need to be Mormon.
     
  15. jonny

    jonny New Member

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    6,260
    Oh, I understand now. No - both have to be Mormon.
     
  16. Booko

    Booko Deviled Hen

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    18,523
    What happens if there are barriers to marriage, like severe disabilities?
     
  17. madhatter85

    madhatter85 Transhumanist

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    4,109
    what kind of Barriers?
     
  18. jonny

    jonny New Member

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    6,260
    I don't believe that God would hold that against someone. Many members of the church (including me) believe that those who do not have the opportunity to marry in this life will still be able to be paired up and inherit the Celestial Kingdom.
     
  19. Don Penguinoini

    Don Penguinoini Modi.

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    9,247
    Religion:
    Hindu Atheist
    Yes you can!
     
  20. FFH

    FFH New Member

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    12,063
    No one is forced to do anything, we have our free will to do whatever we want, but we will not be free to choose the consequences of our actions contrary to God's plan for our lives..

    He wants what's best for us, but we seem to want to choose otherwise...

    This is the "plan of happiness" that all men may choose for themselves how they want to live their lives.

    No one will be forced into the highest kingdom or forced into marrying someone they don't want to, or anyone for that matter.

    But the requirements to enter into the highest level of the highest kingdom is layed out clearly in LDS doctrine..

    Take it or leave it, it's up to the individual....no one will be forced to do anything they don't want to do...

    We have our total free angency...and God will not interfere with that in any way...

    Choose what you want, it's up to you how you will spend eternity..
     
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