Can you get to the highest level of heaven without being married in an LDS temple ???

[rocka21]

With the knowledge that he was given by the Saviour, as far as I know, absolutely.

but being married is required, right? or did he get a free pass?

 

[FFH]

StateNumber of
congregationsNumber of
membersPercent of state
populationUtah2,9241,236,24271.76%Idaho662268,06026.63Wyoming12845,79310.10Nevada19889,0337.41Arizona469199,7615.45Montana10628,6203.58Hawaii10938,3033.46Oregon22889,6013.15Washington371150,6343.10Alaska5815,7512.86


So ruffly, Some of these people made it to the High kingdom in America?

Dang! should have been born in Utah or Idaho!

all kidding aside, that would be a pretty low number world wide that is making it to the Highest kingdom.

of course i will most likely get a scripture like " narrow is the path, and few that find it". I get it.

Christ refers to his flock as "little" in general...

The percentage of Christians in the world, in general, is far far less than those who don't believe in Christ, LDS members are even fewer in number..

Truly narrow is the way and few there be that find it or enter into it...

Christ often uses the terms, "little flock," and "little children"..

In Japan these small numbers of Christians, especially LDS, became extremely overwhelming at times..

So many masses of humanity unwilling to follow Christ..

 

[rocka21]

Christ refers to his flock as "little" in general...

The percentage of Christians in the world, in general, is far far less thant those who don't believe in Christ, LDS members are even fewer in number..

Truly narrow is the way and few there be that find it or enter into it...

Christ often uses the terms, "little flock," and "little children"..

Bingo.... i knew there was an answer.

thats a good answer for little johhny when he is growing up. Johhny, only us in utah know the " WAY" , were are just the ones that hear the voice.

same answer the JW's and SDA's give.

 

[rocka21]

off to bed, thanks for the debate becky and FFH.......

God Bless

 

[Bishka]

Bingo.... i knew there was an answer.

thats a good answer for little johhny when he is growing up. Johhny, only us in utah know the " WAY" , were are just the ones that hear the voice.

same answer the JW's and SDA's give.

Only who in Utah?

Did you know there are more members of the LDS Church outside the United States and Canada then there is inside? I wonder what that statistic shows you?

 

[Bishka]

but being married is required, right? or did he get a free pass?

To be honest, I am not sure, I know he made it to the Celestial Kingdom, but at the moment, he may not be in the highest glory, but what difference does it make to you, you do not even believe in this.

 

[FFH]

sorry, those numbers did not paste right.

i just think its interesting that most mormons are in Utah and Idaho.

could it be that the reason that most LDS on this site are from Utah and Idaho is because when your were a small child this doctrine was drilled into your head and it really does not get to much play outside of those states?

No, absolutely not, my parents never ever forced or taught me anything, other than to pay my tithing and go to church, which we sluffed often and went to our cabin. My parents are not strict Mormons, not many are. We are totally free to figure this thing out ourselves and most do and stray far away from the church looking for something to satisfy them...

There is no lasting satisfaction away from or apart from total obedience to the restored principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ and those who enter into the restored necessary saving ordinances as clearly and simply layed out in LDS doctrine.

There is complete salvation and exaltation in entering into these restored saving ordinances of the LDS church. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT AND NEVER HAVE HAD ONE SECOND OF DOUBT, but my parents have, and they've voiced that opinion to me.

I was told to be an example to my immediate family, by the Lord, and they are all fine now, but they still continue to struggle, just as we all do..but they have all been married in the temple, even most of my extended family, there are a few here and ther that have not, including one of my father's brothers and one of my mother's sisters, but in time they will.

yeah, i know there are around 15 million world wide, but man.... 6 billion people! Just a thought.

"little flock" "little children"

back to the whole married point. That is just another point where i dissagree with the LDS doctrine.

LDS doctrine is the pure restored complete gospel of Jesus Christ, a "Pearl of Great Price," riches cannot by...

Some people have the "gift" not to marry. what about them?

They will need to marry sooner or later if they ever want to be a part of the highest level of heaven, where God the Father and the Son dwell.

Remember Christ said, paraphrasing, "In that world they neither marry or are given in marriage".

All other levels of glory, men will live as single men and women, never marrying...

It's a very sad thought, one which motivated me to get married in an LDS temple for sure..

I don't want to live as a single person for eternity. This alone should be enough of a motivator...

Harsh teaching but true, very true. Don't take a chance on it not being true, because it is true...I know this for a fact.

There is a point in which faith becomes pure knowledge, that's the stage I'm in now and have been since I was a little child...never have doubted any of this.

God lives.

Peace...

 

[FFH]

Bingo.... i knew there was an answer.

thats a good answer for little johhny when he is growing up. Johhny, only us in utah know the " WAY" , were are just the ones that hear the voice.

same answer the JW's and SDA's give.

Rocka, you misunderstand, there is no black and white, hell or heaven, there are varying degrees of hell and varying degrees of paradise/heaven until you reach the place where God the Father and the Son dwell..

God will meet us half way, it's not what you think...

There is a definite cut off point between those who are Chirst's and those who are not.

There are those who will enter into paradise and then later into the Celestial or Terrestrial worlds, verses those who will spend time in hell, during Christ's reign on earth, but will then later be redeemed/resurrected to inherit the lowest kingdom, the Telestial or those very very few who will be redeemed from hell and then cast into Outer Darkness.

 

[FFH]

but being married is required, right? or did he get a free pass?

Yes, that's why we do work for the dead. God will work things out for his salvation, no one will be left behind who did not have the fullness of Christ's gospel while they lived on this earth.

 

[FFH]

See what I mean Hope, your question, which I placed in the opening post, could go on and on for days, weeks or even months, in this thread...

So many questions, concerns and doubts branch off of this particualar question.

 

[madhatter85]

do you think that abortion would count as the shedding of innocent blood for couples married in the temple?

 

[FFH]

do you think that abortion would count as the shedding of innocent blood for couples married in the temple?

Wow, finally a challenging question, which I've never thought of before.

If a couple, who had been through the temple, who knew better, surely this would make their sealing knull and void..

Section 132 of the Doctrine and Covenants is clear on this...

As long as those who have entered into this new and everlasing covenant of marriage do not deny the Holy Ghost, "whereby they shed innocent blood," they will come forth in the first resurrection and if not in the first ressurrection then in the second resurrection "to inherit thrones, prinicpalites and dominions all depths and heights"..

Abortion is a serious thing, especially if one has been through the temple..

If one has not been through the temple then the Lord is much more forgiving...

Those who have been through an LDS temple, know better, and will be held accountable for shedding innocent blood, if they abort any of their kids..

God will be the final judge though, so I really should not judge this sort of thing or speculate, it's not my right to do so....

You decide. I think such a person would know in their heart whether they would still be worthy if they repented and forsook that sin...

But the teaching is clear on this. Do not shed innocent blood, or one will be in danger of losing their exaltation, as David did, and he only indirectly had Uriah killed. He did not murder him personally, but had him put at the forefront of the battle and then had the men, he fought with, pull away from him, so he would be killed by his enemies. A cruel trick, orchestrated by David himself, for which he has paid a price by forever losing his exaltation in the highest degree of heaven..

Don't mess with murder. Abortion is murder for sure...

I would think such a person would not be held guitless at the last day, if they knew better...

 

[rocka21]

To be honest, I am not sure, I know he made it to the Celestial Kingdom, but at the moment, he may not be in the highest glory, but what difference does it make to you, you do not even believe in this.

why can't you be sure? Paul was NOT MARRIED, so he can't be in the highest glory. Or do we bend the rules for him.

so lets get this straight, Uncle Jim and Aunt June are with the Father and Son, but Paul the Apostle is not in the highest glory.

This must be true, if not, why?

 

[MaddLlama]

I'm confused...

Are you saying that a Mormon who never married can't get to the "highest" level of heaven, and that a married non-LDS Christian (or anyone else) can't?

If Mormons believe that Jesus and God are two separate beings, doesn't that mean that Jesus isn't in the highest level of heaven either?

If Christianity came about several thousand years before Joseph Smith founded the LDS church, does this rule apply only after that, or does it apply to all Christians in history?

 

[Bishka]

why can't you be sure?

Because I do not know. It's not something I've actually thought much about.

Paul was NOT MARRIED, so he can't be in the highest glory. Or do we bend the rules for him.

To be completely honest, where in scripture does it say he was not married?

 

[Bishka]

Are you saying that a Mormon who never married can't get to the "highest" level of heaven, and that a married non-LDS Christian (or anyone else) can't?

Yes, but there is many chances to marry. Just because you did not marry in this life, doesn't mean there isn't another chance.

If Mormons believe that Jesus and God are two separate beings, doesn't that mean that Jesus isn't in the highest level of heaven either?

Well some of us believe He may have been married. In my belief, I think He was, it would not make sense for Him not to. He commands us to get married, and He wasn't?? Makes no sense, so yes, I do believe He married.

If Christianity came about several thousand years before Joseph Smith founded the LDS church, does this rule apply only after that, or does it apply to all Christians in history?

Good question actually, to be completely honest, I have no clue on this, and I'll pass it off to one of the more knowledgeable LDS'ers here.

 

[silvermoon383]

It's more likely that Paul was a widower. While he was Saul he was a member of the Sanhedrein, a council where marriage was a requirement.

 

[Katzpur]

do you think that abortion would count as the shedding of innocent blood for couples married in the temple?

In most cases, probably. However, the wife of a member of our Stake High Council had an abortion. I don't know all of the circumstances, but I believe there are exceptions to the general rule. God is all-knowing; we're not. We're also not in a position to judge our fellow human beings.

 

[Katzpur]

I'm confused...

Are you saying that a Mormon who never married can't get to the "highest" level of heaven, and that a married non-LDS Christian (or anyone else) can't?

It would depend on a lot of things, and is not that cut and dried. That would be the general rule of thumb.

If Mormons believe that Jesus and God are two separate beings, doesn't that mean that Jesus isn't in the highest level of heaven either?

First of all, many LDS believe that Jesus was, in fact, married -- although let me stress that this is NOT official doctrine. Regardless of His marital status, Jesus is God. He can go wherever He wishes.

If Christianity came about several thousand years before Joseph Smith founded the LDS church, does this rule apply only after that, or does it apply to all Christians in history?

It applies to everyone who has ever lived. Just as we perform proxy baptisms, we perform proxy marriages (i.e. sealings).

Sorry for the brief answers. I'm in kind of a hurry to get to Church.

 

[madhatter85]

I'm confused...

Clearly:drool:

Are you saying that a Mormon who never married can't get to the "highest" level of heaven, and that a married non-LDS Christian (or anyone else) can't?

no, because their marriages are until "Death do us part" how can one become exalted unless the marriage is binding and everlasting. The Priesthood has the authority to bind things on earth and also in heaven. Hence why we have the authority on the earth again to perform eternal marriages.

If Mormons believe that Jesus and God are two separate beings, doesn't that mean that Jesus isn't in the highest level of heaven either?

Just because he didn't marry here on earth doesn't mean he won't marry in heaven. Also, I can only speculate, but i believe Jesus was married, his life jumps from 15 to 33 in the bible with nothing in between, that is 18 years of lost history. I think that a good explanation would be it was omitted to protect his family here on earth. If he was to be our example of a perfect person, then wouldn't that mean he married and had children? since he teaches us that?

If Christianity came about several thousand years before Joseph Smith founded the LDS church, does this rule apply only after that, or does it apply to all Christians in history?

The biggest thing that goes on int he temple is work for the dead. Sealings, Endowments, Baptisms and Confirmations, these are all done for our ancestors who have passed on. We believe that during the millennium when Christ reigns, that will be the work that is emphasized the most, making sure we don't miss a single person, and with the number of people on this planet, I'm sure it would take a thousand years with temples working 24/6 (Sundays off) to complete all that work.

We do the work for those who never had the chance to hear the truth. our purpose is to "bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man" that is what we strive to do each and every day as upstandign members of the church, not only for those living but also for those who have passed on and are waiting for the resurrection.