Can we see God? (abrahamic version)

[Bear Wild]

Gods creation of beauty

Yes but which Goddess created it. Why assume a god created it.

If you are a pantheist then yes the tree is a part of god.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Yes but which Goddess created it. Why assume a god created it.

If you are a pantheist then yes the tree is a part of god.

Everything around us is a part of God and created by God. If the God is called Allah or if it is called something else does not matter i think, As you know, i believe in Allah but i can of course not say to others that they have to name a God or Godess if they do not feel for it.
Maybe it is enough to say it is the nature it self that over time created this beautiful flower ?

 

[firedragon]

But the thing is Scripture either say God want us to see him or at least hinting that it can be possible.

Which verse?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Which verse?

I do not have the verse in front of me, it was only something i read during some open study i did.
If i am able to find it again i will post it

 

[SigurdReginson]

There were several times when I was a Chrstian that I felt that I had experienced god's presence... There were also times when I was pursuing the path of pagan religions when I thought I experienced the presence of those gods as well. I never physically saw any of these gods with my eyes, though.

In retrospect, I would say that I had convinced myself that I felt god's presence according to the way my brain responded when certain chemicals filled my brain under these emotional circumstances. This seems like the most likely thing to me... Felt real enough at the time, though.

 

[Spirit of Light]

There were several times when I was a Chrstian that I felt that I had experienced god's presence... There were also times when I was pursuing the path of pagan religions when I thought I experienced the presence of those gods as well. I never physically saw any of these gods with my eyes, though.

In retrospect, I would say that I had convinced myself that I felt god's presence according to the way my brain responded when certain chemicals filled my brain under these emotional circumstances. This seems like the most likely thing to me... Felt real enough at the time, though.

So you have actually both a "spiritual" experience and a more scientific answer to it

 

[SigurdReginson]

So you have actually both a "spiritual" experience and a more scientific answer to it

Having the scientific answer doesn't negate the experience, though. Those experiences are still as meaningful to me now as they were then. They just take on a different value... One that allows me to understand myself a little better.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Having the scientific answer doesn't negate the experience, though. Those experiences are still as meaningful to me now as they were then. They just take on a different value... One that allows me to understand myself a little better.

That is very good.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Edit: In OP like this i do not speak as a Sufi who "only" think Allah in discussion of abrahamic faith, it is about the Torah, Bible, Quran or other scriptures found within Abrahamic teachings.

There has been many discussions and debates in RF about God, and many claim to know God, and non believers ask for physical proofs before they even think that God can exist (something i now understand why)

But the thing is Scripture either say God want us to see him or at least hinting that it can be possible.

The question then become, does this mean in physical form or is it seeing God through wisdom about what God is?

OP starter has of course his own thought of this, but i will try to remain open to look at all posabilities without biased pre-conseption.

Nice post. In the Bahá’í Writings it says that God is the ‘unknowable Essence’ and that we can only know Him through His Prophets. To have accepted and believed in Them is to know God. They reveal God’s Will for humanity and His Attributes such as love, compassion, mercy and justice. But directly we cannot know God. It is like the painting cannot comprehend the painter.

 

[Clara Tea]

Conscious Thoughts asked "can we see God?"

Yes, we can see God in ourselves and others, for we were made in His image. But the image of mankind is varied...perhaps God is too? Perhaps we see the goodness of God "potentially" in ourselves? Is God's image a picture of God or the knowledge of his goodness?

We can also see Satan in the same way. We can see wars, environmental destruction, and indifference to the homeless and poor in all of Satan's acts. We even see Satan masquerading as God....claiming to "fight the Axis of Evil" and duping those who don't recognize his evil. Looking for Satan is quite easy....just look for the blood trails (wars, torture camps), and look for all of the things that messed up the world today (homelessness, wars, greed, pollution).

Image is in deeds.

Wars mean that Satan is behind them--we must learn to recognize Satan.

 

[firedragon]

I do not have the verse in front of me, it was only something i read during some open study i did.
If i am able to find it again i will post it

You should. Thanks.

 

[Clara Tea]

So when you say 'God (Abrahamic version)', you actually mean the Christian God?

Jesus was Jewish. He taught his Jewish religion to non-Jews (they are now called Christians because they follow the teachings of Jesus Christ).

Jesus taught Christians about his God (the Jewish God), and that is the same God that Christians use.

So, Christians are Jews.

The only differences between Christians and Jews is that they don't follow all of the Jewish rules (no bris, no dietary rules (no pork (unless kosher), no shellfish, no meat and milk of the same beast at the same meal, have to go out and shoot a gefilte to make gefilte fish, and may trim the corners of their head).

Christians are not ethnically Jewish, but they adhere to the Jewish faith.

Islam is also a spin-off of the Jewish faith, so Islamics are also Jewish.

The Irish who came to America no longer could afford celebrating Saint Patrick's day with bacon and wilted lettuce. Instead, they used cheaper Jewish corned beef and cheaper cabbage. So, in some sense, the Irish did adopt some Jewish food, as well.

Cowboys who sought gold in Sutter's Mill in 1849 had trousers that wore out easily. But Levi Strauss (Jewish) brought new denim tent material (lousy....it leaked) and used it for riveted blue jeans. So, cowboys are wearing improvised Jewish garb.

Beanie caps are yarmulkes. But generally Jews don't have spinning propellers on their heads in the temple.

Still, one must be weary of Jews (they might bless you, cure diseases, or buy you a hospital research center like the City of Hope).

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Jesus was Jewish. He taught his Jewish religion to non-Jews (they are now called Christians because they follow the teachings of Jesus Christ).

Jesus taught Christians about his God (the Jewish God), and that is the same God that Christians use.

So, Christians are Jews.

The only differences between Christians and Jews is that they don't follow all of the Jewish rules (no bris, no dietary rules (no pork (unless kosher), no shellfish, no meat and milk of the same beast at the same meal, have to go out and shoot a gefilte to make gefilte fish, and may trim the corners of their head).

Christians are not ethnically Jewish, but they adhere to the Jewish faith.

Islam is also a spin-off of the Jewish faith, so Islamics are also Jewish.

The Irish who came to America no longer could afford celebrating Saint Patrick's day with bacon and wilted lettuce. Instead, they used cheaper Jewish corned beef and cheaper cabbage. So, in some sense, the Irish did adopt some Jewish food, as well.

Cowboys who sought gold in Sutter's Mill in 1849 had trousers that wore out easily. But Levi Strauss (Jewish) brought new denim tent material (lousy....it leaked) and used it for riveted blue jeans. So, cowboys are wearing improvised Jewish garb.

Beanie caps are yarmulkes. But generally Jews don't have spinning propellers on their heads in the temple.

Still, one must be weary of Jews (they might bless you, cure diseases, or buy you a hospital research center like the City of Hope).

What definition of Jewish are you going off of?

 

[Neuropteron]

Edit: In OP like this i do not speak as a Sufi who "only" think Allah in discussion of abrahamic faith, it is about the Torah, Bible, Quran or other scriptures found within Abrahamic teachings.

There has been many discussions and debates in RF about God, and many claim to know God, and non believers ask for physical proofs before they even think that God can exist (something i now understand why)

But the thing is Scripture either say God want us to see him or at least hinting that it can be possible.

The question then become, does this mean in physical form or is it seeing God through wisdom about what God is?

OP starter has of course his own thought of this, but i will try to remain open to look at all posabilities without biased pre-conseption.

Hi,

Paul says that Christ after his resurrection "... dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one ...can see. (1Tim 6:16)
How then can understand Jesus claim in Matt 6 that "the pure in heart...will see God" ?
according to the dictionary : see can be synonymous with understand, discern, perceive.
For instance, a euphemism for understand is "I see".

I think, the perceived discrepancy of these two statements can be resolved with this premise.

 

[Link]

According to many prayers taught by Ahlulbayt (a), the answer is yes as long as you keep in mind God is still beyond the vision.

For example in munajatal shabaniya of Imam Ali (a):


ilahi hab li kamala alinqita`i ilayka
O my God, (please) grant me absolute devotion to You
وَانِرْ ابْصَارَ قُلُوبِنَا بِضِيَاءِ نَظَرِهَا إِلَيْكَ
wa anir absara qulubina bidiya'i nazariha ilayka
and illuminate the sights of our hearts with the light of observing of You
حَتَّىٰ تَخْرِقَ ابْصَارُ ٱلْقُلُوبِ حُجُبَ ٱلنُّورِ
hatta takhriqa absaru alqulubi hujuba alnnuri
so that the sights of the hearts will penetrate the Screens of Light
فَتَصِلَ إِلَىٰ مَعْدِنِ ٱلْعَظَمَةِ
fatasila ila ma`dini al`azamati
and arrive at the Core of Magnificence,
وَتَصِيرَ ارْوَاحُنَا مُعَلَّقَةً بِعِزِّ قُدْسِكَ
wa tasira arwahuna mu`allaqatan bi`izzi qudsika
and that our souls hang to the majesty of Your Holiness.




As people are immersed in love of world, they don't see God and according to Du'a Abu Thumalee from Imam Sajjad (a) God doesn't veil himself from creation except if their acts are for other then him.

It's obligatory to see God in this world per Quran for if we don't, we will be even more blind to him in the next world:

"And whoever is blind in this (world), he will be blind in the next..." (Suratal Isra).

As everyone sees the truth clearly in the next world, the blindness referred is not about blind to the fact God exists or that he sent Messengers or is the One True God, but being blind to his light and not seeing him, because on the day of judgment everyone will know the truth, so blindness means being veiled to the beauty and majesty of God.

So while disbelievers will see Angels and know God rules, they will be blind to his beauty, and more blind to it in the next world then they were in this world. That means they will be further in the darkness.

So the blindness here in this world is about those who don't see God and his light and are disconnected from him and don't look at his beauty, they will be more blind in the next.

According to a certain prayer passed on by Ahlulbayt (a), Musa (a) saw God when God revealed his glory to the mountain.

 

[Link]

But the thing is Scripture either say God want us to see him

Those blind and don't see God, will forever be veiled in the next world. It's not just hinted in the Quran, it's clear that blindness to God and his light is unacceptable. See Suratal Isra and Suratal Noor.

It's obligatory to see God.

 

[F1fan]

Edit: In OP like this i do not speak as a Sufi who "only" think Allah in discussion of abrahamic faith, it is about the Torah, Bible, Quran or other scriptures found within Abrahamic teachings.

There has been many discussions and debates in RF about God, and many claim to know God, and non believers ask for physical proofs before they even think that God can exist (something i now understand why)

But the thing is Scripture either say God want us to see him or at least hinting that it can be possible.

The question then become, does this mean in physical form or is it seeing God through wisdom about what God is?

OP starter has of course his own thought of this, but i will try to remain open to look at all posabilities without biased pre-conseption.

You seem to align towards the notion of God being more symbolic, and in that way it can be more meaningful.

 

[F1fan]

According to many prayers taught by Ahlulbayt (a), the answer is yes as long as you keep in mind God is still beyond the vision.

For example in munajatal shabaniya of Imam Ali (a):


ilahi hab li kamala alinqita`i ilayka
O my God, (please) grant me absolute devotion to You
وَانِرْ ابْصَارَ قُلُوبِنَا بِضِيَاءِ نَظَرِهَا إِلَيْكَ
wa anir absara qulubina bidiya'i nazariha ilayka
and illuminate the sights of our hearts with the light of observing of You
حَتَّىٰ تَخْرِقَ ابْصَارُ ٱلْقُلُوبِ حُجُبَ ٱلنُّورِ
hatta takhriqa absaru alqulubi hujuba alnnuri
so that the sights of the hearts will penetrate the Screens of Light
فَتَصِلَ إِلَىٰ مَعْدِنِ ٱلْعَظَمَةِ
fatasila ila ma`dini al`azamati
and arrive at the Core of Magnificence,
وَتَصِيرَ ارْوَاحُنَا مُعَلَّقَةً بِعِزِّ قُدْسِكَ
wa tasira arwahuna mu`allaqatan bi`izzi qudsika
and that our souls hang to the majesty of Your Holiness.




As people are immersed in love of world, they don't see God and according to Du'a Abu Thumalee from Imam Sajjad (a) God doesn't veil himself from creation except if their acts are for other then him.

It's obligatory to see God in this world per Quran for if we don't, we will be even more blind to him in the next world:

"And whoever is blind in this (world), he will be blind in the next..." (Suratal Isra).

As everyone sees the truth clearly in the next world, the blindness referred is not about blind to the fact God exists or that he sent Messengers or is the One True God, but being blind to his light and not seeing him, because on the day of judgment everyone will know the truth, so blindness means being veiled to the beauty and majesty of God.

So while disbelievers will see Angels and know God rules, they will be blind to his beauty, and more blind to it in the next world then they were in this world. That means they will be further in the darkness.

So the blindness here in this world is about those who don't see God and his light and are disconnected from him and don't look at his beauty, they will be more blind in the next.

According to a certain prayer passed on by Ahlulbayt (a), Musa (a) saw God when God revealed his glory to the mountain.

So the lesson is that a person needs to be very careful about what they think God is.

 

[F1fan]

Those blind and don't see God, will forever be veiled in the next world. It's not just hinted in the Quran, it's clear that blindness to God and his light is unacceptable. See Suratal Isra and Suratal Noor.

It's obligatory to see God.

Those who are blind and see God are the one's we need to worry about.

 

[Link]

So the lesson is that a person needs to be very careful about what they think God is.

God is a proof for himself and is connected to all things. Love can hold on to God and perceive him, while disbelievers call to doubt that is irrational, believers see God through the vision of the heart, through eyes of love.