Can we leave religious books and intellectual knowledge aside?

[Willowmina]

Hei guys, has this any connection to what we've been discussing? :
Ahmahaa.org

 

[dust1n]

Is there a time when we can leave religious books and intellectual knowledge aside?

No.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Is there a time when we can leave religious books and intellectual knowledge aside?

Of course!

--provided you don't care about the profound loss this would entail!


Bruce

 

[Midnight Pete]

Can we leave religious books and intellectual knowledge aside?

I left both of these things aside (for awhile) when I had my wisdom teeth removed. They gave my a drip of Valium. I woke up when it was all over. Subjectively, no time had passed but it must have taken a good while to pry those things out of my jawbone. Glad I was elsewhere when they did it.

 

[LuisDantas]

Hei guys, has this any connection to what we've been discussing? :
Ahmahaa.org

Thanks for the link. The basic idea seems to be to learn a sort of spontaneous expression so that people get in better touch with their own true feelings and goals.

I see much merit in the idea. People do indeed often lose touch with themselves due to an excess of social pressures and fears.

I don't see why that would have any true relation with discarding religious and intelectual knowledge, however. If anything, it is a good exercise at finding purer expressions of both.

I must also warn that this is such an unfortunately neglected kind of expression that not a whole lot of true, healthy wisdom does exist on the matter. I suggest that you keep on guard against manipulators that attempt to draw money, influence or even just feeling of being important to other people (such feelings don't always express themselves in healthy ways).

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

I could, I think my life would be much the same if I had never heard of or opened a holy book, but I cant speak for everybody else

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

Is there a time when we can leave religious books and intellectual knowledge aside?

Thanks for the link. The basic idea seems to be to learn a sort of spontaneous expression so that people get in better touch with their own true feelings and goals.

I see much merit in the idea. People do indeed often lose touch with themselves due to an excess of social pressures and fears.

from what i read of the site it seems like a practice that can be utilized to very different degrees and still remain effective.
i dont see why taking some time out from outside influence of dogma, politics, cultural pressures, etc. would be a bad thing, provided the decisions and revelations that resulted were scrutinized with rationality.

and as far as the communication techniques involved, i'd use them with caution. language is a dominant form of communication for a reason.

if we're talking about making this a constant sort of lifestyle though, i dont think i can dig it.

 

[Willowmina]

Thanks for the link. The basic idea seems to be to learn a sort of spontaneous expression so that people get in better touch with their own true feelings and goals.
I see much merit in the idea. People do indeed often lose touch with themselves due to an excess of social pressures and fears.

Yes, I also get out something from this website. They seem to be genuine.
I see the Ahmahaa as a heart-to-heart communication approach, not induced mainly by our intellect. They speak about community as a vital factor.
They say we are over stimulated by our own intellect, our fragmented mind and emotions and the virtual world?
Their techniques and practices I do not quite understand. Can someone help me understand this part?

 

[Willowmina]

from what i read of the site it seems like a practice that can be utilized to very different degrees and still remain effective.
i dont see why taking some time out from outside influence of dogma, politics, cultural pressures, etc. would be a bad thing, provided the decisions and revelations that resulted were scrutinized with rationality.

and as far as the communication techniques involved, i'd use them with caution. language is a dominant form of communication for a reason.

if we're talking about making this a constant sort of lifestyle though, i dont think i can dig it.

a) Yes I agree but aren't there all sorts of rational systems?

b) of course there is a reason for everything even when we don't know this, but don't we try to rationalize almost anything?

c) as far as i understand, they don't advocate this as a constant sort of lifestyle. They use it only when communication gets too much out of hand. We in the West know our communication issues and the results of it, don't we?
What I understand, they make reason submissive to the community/group culture.
Isn't this a relevant approach that many of us could learn from?

 

[Gloone]

Is there a time when we can leave religious books and intellectual knowledge aside?

Yes we can leave it all behind now. We are smart enough where no one has to take baby steps and everyone can walk on their own two feet.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

a) Yes I agree but aren't there all sorts of rational systems?

b) of course there is a reason for everything even when we don't know this, but don't we try to rationalize almost anything?

c) as far as i understand, they don't advocate this as a constant sort of lifestyle. They use it only when communication gets too much out of hand. We in the West know our communication issues and the results of it, don't we?
What I understand, they make reason submissive to the community/group culture.
Isn't this a relevant approach that many of us could learn from?

i'm sure it can be a useful tool in the right contexts. but i wouldn't elevate it's effectiveness over intellectual responsibility in every situation.

 

[Willowmina]

i'm sure it can be a useful tool in the right contexts. but i wouldn't elevate it's effectiveness over intellectual responsibility in every situation.

what do you mean by 'intellectual responsibility'?

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes, I also get out something from this website. They seem to be genuine.
I see the Ahmahaa as a heart-to-heart communication approach, not induced mainly by our intellect. They speak about community as a vital factor.

Gosh, all communications are intellectual by their very nature. I wonder why so many people think otherwise.

I fully agree about the convenience of community-oriented communications, however. Have you heard of "silent transmission"?

They say we are over stimulated by our own intellect, our fragmented mind and emotions and the virtual world?

Fragmented, yes. "Over stimulated by our own intellect"? Hardly. That is an urban legend as far as I can tell.

 

[Willowmina]

Gosh, all communications are intellectual by their very nature. I wonder why so many people think otherwise.

a) wow, wow are all communications intellectual by their very nature?!

"I fully agree about the convenience of community-oriented communications, however. Have you heard of "silent transmission"?"

b) I know there are all sorts of " silent transmissions" . How do you define or what does "silent transmission" mean to you?

"Fragmented, yes. "Over stimulated by our own intellect"? Hardly. That is an urban legend as far as I can tell."

c) is it an urban legend? What do the eastern tradition say about this and for that matter Buddhism?

 

[LuisDantas]

a) wow, wow are all communications intellectual by their very nature?!

Pretty much. I suppose you could be using a particularly restrictive definition of the word, but I think that is misleading.

"I fully agree about the convenience of community-oriented communications, however. Have you heard of "silent transmission"?"

b) I know there are all sorts of " silent transmissions" . How do you define or what does "silent transmission" mean to you?

Basically, it is a form of communication that is blessed by so much context (body language, example through behavior, known past story) that words end up being useless (or worse) to complement it.

Being non-verbal does not make it any less intellectual, however. At least not as far as I can tell.

"Fragmented, yes. "Over stimulated by our own intellect"? Hardly. That is an urban legend as far as I can tell."

c) is it an urban legend? What do the eastern tradition say about this and for that matter Buddhism?

East, like everywhere else, has all kinds of thoughts. It seems to me, however, that the dominant stance would be that one must have clarity of values and goals. In fact, of the Noble Eightfold Path at least three (IMO four, since I include Right View) of the eight means are very much mental in nature.

I'm not sure what else could one believe in, to be sincere. There is no downside to being rational or intellectual, despite what some people seem to believe and even teach. It is lack of wisdom and of ethics that sometimes make rationally misused - but that is not any more an argument against rationality than, say, the existence of violent kicks is an argument against having legs.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

what do you mean by 'intellectual responsibility'?

intellectual responsibility meaning the active weighing of supposed things against actual things. wonder is never complete without skepticism. one can feel free to engage in whatever kinds of practices s/he wants in order to know hirself, however it's the responsibility of the individual to use reality as a foundation.

 

[Willowmina]

intellectual responsibility meaning the active weighing of supposed things against actual things. wonder is never complete without skepticism. one can feel free to engage in whatever kinds of practices s/he wants in order to know hirself, however it's the responsibility of the individual to use reality as a foundation.

what are supposed things - what are actual things? Where is the line of demarcation in our own life or elsewere between these apparent two different things ? How far should we take a skeptic attitude? What is this 'reality' as a foundation?

 

[mitra]

Some friends mine explain me how this discussion go.
What kind of discussion you have? One say this, other say that. Words, words and more words make apart and this go on and on and on. You happy with this kind communication? Leave you satisfied like after you eat good food? Me not. This because maybe me younger than you...

Now me make song:

I say this,
You say that,
Can we put this in one hat?
Maybe make scrambled egg,
You like that? :yes::no::help:

 

[LuisDantas]

what are supposed things - what are actual things? Where is the line of demarcation in our own life or elsewere between these apparent two different things ? How far should we take a skeptic attitude? What is this 'reality' as a foundation?

Those are basically questions about ethics and personal responsibility, because the distinction between supposed things and actual things comes from personal conviction versus objective demonstrability. Motivation is an important and needed part of people's lifes, and it can't come from objective facts alone. But ultimately we all live in the same world and ought to surrender ourselves to objective facts and their consequences.

 

[atanu]

I don't know if the common Hindu or Buddhist worshiper reads the respective scriptures on regular basis, but Hinduism without its major scriptures has nothing to lean on, while the Buddhist religion holds one of the biggest scriptural libraries in known religions.

Hello Caladan

A Hindu, especially of the priestly class, is required to master grammar, correct pronounciation and then read scriptures on daily basis along with prayers and rituals. I think one major difference between other religious scriptures and Hindu scriptures is that the Hindu scripture itself recommends enquiry on the nature of oneself. Scripture says that enquiry into Truth/Brahman is auspicious. Probably, a flip side of this is that we are argumentative and have many schools.

However, scripture again says that a knower of Self, which is of the nature of knowledge (and not anything graspable), needs scripture as much as a man neck deep in water needs water.

Om