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Featured Can We Arrest Our Prejudice?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by John D. Brey, Oct 23, 2016.

  1. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    Would it be fair to say that Jewish persons excel in certain skills? That they have apparent innate skills that serve them well in certain endeavors? And that the same can be said in regards to African Americans?

    Is it unfair that CNN hires a grossly disproportionate number of Jewish journalists? Or are they just hiring the most qualified persons? Does the NBA discriminate against Mexicans and and midgets? Or are they merely hiring the most qualified persons?

    Once it's agreed that different races and creeds excel at different things (Jewish person don't generally make pork sausage as well as Polish Christians), the next hurdle is determining if excelling at different things suggests of some sort of inferiority or superiority? Say for instance that Jews excel at mind work while African Americans, in the aggregate, excel at physical things, sports and heavy lifting (so to say).

    Is it possible to go further in that direction without offending the affirmative-action taking place in a lot of people's souls?

    Can we question whether Jews, for instance, excel at so many things, and most of them related to acquisition of money, power, and prestige (and the advancement of society as a whole), while some other races, ethnicity, or religious persuasions, lag way behind in anything that leads to power or money or control, or the evolution toward a fair and equitable society, that we would want to say Jews are basically (at least in the aggregate) superior ---- such that we would no longer think that prejudice is in play when Jews get jobs in a disproportionate number and in a disproportionate number of industries?

    What if it's true, empirically, factually, and truthfully, that some races are grossly inferior (scientifically speaking)? What if some creeds and religions are grossly inferior when it comes to empirical determinations, factual determinations, on usefulness, power acquisition, or advancing society?


    John
     
  2. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    What if, using the scientific-method, we could determine that using history, and empirical observation as our prism, it could be shown that those peoples, nations, and civilizations, that privileged physicality over mind-work, or physical activity over religious metaphysics, have, in the aggregate, and without much question, lagged behind those peoples, nations, and civilizations who privileged religion, metaphysics, and thought-work, over physicality?

    If we could think this far, without someone getting physical with us, using their brute strength to push us around for thinking like this, we would naturally question why any person, people, nation, or civilization, would, based on the empirical proof just proffered, privilege physicality, the body, over thought, the soul, i.e., physicality over metaphysics?


    John
     
  3. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    . . . Although he's probably added less than any other Jew to my "penis theology," it's nevertheless true, factual, that Maimonides claimed removing the foreskin (the quintessential symbol of being Jewish) lessened the pleasure associated with coitus, thereby, in some small sense (or not), leading Jews to the symbolic (metaphysical) notion that lessening the pleasure associated with coitus is somehow fundamental to their ethnic or religious difference from the [clearing throat] Genitiles.

    Segue back to the question about physicality vs metaphysics. Why would lessening the pleasure associated with coitus be fundamental to Jewish identity in a manner seemingly inverse in relationship to the claim to fame of, say, the African American?

    Why have Jews given us a religious tradition utterly obsessed with controlling physical passions, and in their case, the lessening of the granddaddy of them all, sexual intercourse, while African Americans come from a tradition that more than any people in history, centers around, and misuses anything like the Jewish mono-gamy tradition?

    How can it be that if we use the scientific-method, if we throw out our prejudices, it seems that one of the participants of this forum is not so out of line to develop a theology, a metaphysics, of the phallus? How can it be that if we throw out out prejudice, and look at history, empirically, scientifically, there's an inverse relationship between phallic activity, unrestrained use of the phallus, and economic, military, cultural, and religious evolution of the human race?

    How did we miss this? How could it be that something so empirically obvious, so scientifically verifiable, comes out of the left field (so to say) and gets our passions to rise in opposition to a scientific truth that cuts at the very heart of everything near and dear to us? . . . Oh . . . perhaps that's it? Deep down none of us wants to admit that what motivates us most, in our youth, in our formative years, in our most productive years, centers mostly around the phallus.

    Perhaps that's the genesis of anti-Semitism: hated for those people who preach to us that mankind will evolve in relationship to his ability to delimit his phallic instincts. And then these purveyors of anti-perversion shove the truth of their tradition in our faces by becoming the poster-boys and girls for the very value they offer our unwilling selves.

    How can we possible look into a scientific fact that shows that scientifically speaking we all privilege our animal physicality, situated most in the testes and phallus, over our brain. We prefer the smell of sex to the pew of the church. We pretend that sex, the phallus, since we hide them more than anything else, are not that important to us. That we could do without. Though we consider ourselves dead to rights the moment we run out of the little blue pill.


    John
     
  4. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    Ok . . . now to the advanced question associated with a "penis theology" as it has here been shown to be of some scientific import.

    Why is the penis the weight drawing weaker men to their demise: personal, historical, political, national, global? -----What's wrong with the penis? ------Why do men, races, and ethnicities (and some religions) who follow it, go down to sheol, and those who bled it rise to the heavens? What's nature, history, truth, the scientific-method, and, not that it's that important, the Bible, trying to tell us?

    Have we reached a point in time where we can finally answer the most important question that has ever been? What's wrong with the phallus? . . . Can we finally arrest the phallus? Can we finally incarcerate it, surround samech it, lasso it, tighten the lasso and strangle it (or leave a mark for having tried)? ---- Can we arrest the source of all prejudice, all false ruling authority, all gender inequality, all racial inequality . . . etc., etc, . . . or when reading this do you feel a strange tinge of anti-Semitism, or prejudice against what's being said, rising up in you, encouraging you to use whatever ruler's scepter you have to make a ruling against the jew-loving prick who would write something so asinine?

    The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet [legs], until Shiloh come.

    Genesis 49:10.

    The verse before us [Gen. 49:10] is thus stating that the rod of the oppressor will not be removed from Judah until his son [Shiloh, Messiah], who will bring about the emasculation of the peoples and their collapse, will come . . ..

    Nachmanides, on Genesis 49:10.


    John
     
    #4 John D. Brey, Oct 23, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  5. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    No................
    We are slowly dragging ourselves away from dreadful prejudice and bigotry, and therefore we need to suppress ideas about any kind of elitism or exclusiveness connected to nationality, race, colour, gender, disability, etc etc.

    And so, where we find that, for instance, a particular group of folks have no fear of heights and no vertigo, we should suppress the tendency to suggest that only they are fit to work on high buildings.... etc etc.

    no..... give the individual every chance to break through human prejudices.... :)
     
  6. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    I think there is a variance on average in the hundreds of different physical, mental and personality traits between ethnicities and that many of society's past stereotypes actually have some genetic basis. There is also obviously overlap between individuals of different ethnicities so one can not judge individually who is higher in a certain trait just by ethnicity.

    I believe in a society that gives equal opportunity to all but that even then some ethnicities will be over and under represented in certain segments of society. I accept that as not a problem and believe in equal treatment but not necessarily expecting equal outcomes in a mixed society.
     
  7. buddhist

    buddhist Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say "inferior", but "different". And it's because of epigenetics - inherited traits from one's own parents, family, clan, race, etc. One family/race/etc. might be smarter than another family/race/etc., but in turn, the latter may be stronger or faster than the former. It's just what it is.
     
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  8. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Please explain the utility of determing peoples skills based on 'race'. I wont ask for you to explain the morality...
     
  9. Sonofason

    Sonofason Well-Known Member

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    I would suggest that the only utility would be to justify various forms of racism. I can think of no other benefit.
     
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  10. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    But what if races aren't equal? What if history and science proves they're not equal? Should we suppress that truth?



    John
     
  11. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    You may not have read the entire thread. It's rather long-winded. But a particular issue is laid out in the first few messages. In a nutshell (so to say) the premise is that history seems to show that those who privilege physical pleasure, phallic pleasure in particular, seem to be economically, culturally, and intellectually inferior, or at least it appears that way, such that there's a pretty giant light shined on Abraham's bleeding of the phallus as the sign of the institution of a new world order centered around the people of the Book, all of whom tend to establish superior cultures, economies, and intellectual products. And all of whom establish barriers to phallic-sex, and particularly the proliferation of sexual novelty (homosexuality, fornication, adultery, pandering, prostitution, etc.).


    John
     
  12. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    I agree it's what it is. Nevertheless there seems to be some relationship between the historical losers, so to say, and the phallus, how it's used and thought of. That's the point of the thread.That's the premise laid out in the first few messages.



    John
     
  13. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    Do you suppose, as another person has suggested, we should suppress the truth if it turns out that a given race, ethnicity, or religion, can be determined to be superior, so far as economics, culture, intellect, is concerned?


    John
     
  14. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    Would it be better to suppress, or lie, if in fact there is racial, ethnic, or religious superiority (so far as economics, culture, and intellect are concerned)? In other words, should what is nice and kind and fair be truth, and what is true be suppressed if it is not nice, and fair, and kind?

    Should equality be the criteria for what is true? Or should what is true be the criteria for truth even if it isn't very nice? ----- Should something be done about the New England Patriots since they're making a shambles of the league's desire for parity? Can't the commissioner decide the league wants to dock Tom Brady five more games for, well, emasculating his balls so they're not as hard.


    John
     
    #14 John D. Brey, Oct 24, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
  15. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Interesting way to answer my question.
    Let me make this more concrete for you. I follow basketball. Not in a casual fan way either. Unlike the old days, where player heights were deemed important, measurements like arm length are increasingly considered a superior way of determining the relative lengths of players, allowing them to impact games, particularly defensively.

    Arm length of African Americans is longer in relative terms than Chinese (for example). However that 'natural advantage' doesnt require scouting or drafting to be skewed to African Americans. Rather, the ability to impact scouted games at the college level, plus the arm measurement itself is the important consideration. In other words, merit.

    So, in simple terms, lets not kid ourselves that we can divide up the worlds diversity along racial, religious or gender lines and do anything but make ourselves less intellectually honest in the process.
     
  16. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Yep! :)
    There is one characteristic of humans that seems to extend across all people, regardless, and that is the incorrible impulse to make exclusive groups. Perfect examples exist here on this forum.

    This characteristic is so dangerous to our concept of 'general human rights' that we surely cannot allow ourselves to develop any 'thing' which might allow elitism of any kind to grow. It's bad enough, wicked enough, already.

    And what achievement is hoped for, by focusing upon any strengths that are particular to one group or another? Such an operation will bring nothing of great value to humanity, but open the doors to yet more evils than we already have to cope with.

    :)
     
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  17. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    . . . Are you saying that if NBA teams were each slotted to select only from one race no team would gain a meaningful advantage?



    John
     
  18. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    You repeat the same mistakes for most of your arguments and view points. You are ignoring environmental factors of the individual but treating the group as the only environmental factor for all individuals. You are equating "does not" with "can not", and vice-versa, as a unwarranted shift for your premises for an unwarranted jump from biology to sociology. Innate skills are not taught yet you make a comparison to taught creeds and religions based on parallelism of the results not the methods used.
     
  19. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    . . . Within the conceptual framework you're working in, I think most people would agree with you. ------But the premise of the first four messages in this thread is that the truth always and inevitably raises its pretty or ugly head. -----If it's true that there are superior races, and I believe it is, then as you imply, that's not fair, and seem like it would be a portent of everlasting inequality, strife, and division?

    I believe it's true that there are superior people, races, religions, and ethnicities, and I believe you're correct that that will cause inevitable inequality, strife, and division. Furthermore I believe God has designed human history for the the antithesis of inequality, strife, and division?

    So what gives?

    In the same sense that truth always raises its pretty or ugly head, it could be said that the scientific-method, devoid of prejudicial or ideological bias, is the ladder truth often uses to raise itself up where it can be seen, understood, and applied. If we think of the problem of racial, ethnic, and religious inequality in scientific terms, accept what is true, find out why its true, how such a monster (inequality) came to be, see if anything can be changed in a fundamental and true way, only then could real change occur. Everything else is smoke-n-mirrors that will only bandage sores that in truth require antibiotics to keep then from getting infected and eventually leading to amputations.

    The Bible predicts a future world where equality and fairness reign supreme. How did we get from the original Biblical design for that world, to this mess, and how do we return?



    John
     
  20. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    I think you're on to something good. Could you make your point a tad clearer?

    I believe there's a genuine parallel between genes and memes. Memes are what I think you're referring to as "sociological (versus biological)? Jews are not purely genetic. Certain memes are required to be in the bloodstream of a person born to a Jewish mother before they're the full functioning version of a Jew.

    Same with being an American. It's not really enough to be born in America, and have a citizenship. That makes you legally American (as having a Jewish biological mother makes you legally Jewish). But to really be an American, the full-functioning model, you have to have some American memes. To be a Jew, a full-functioning model, you have to have some Jewish memes.

    How do memes affect genes, and vise versa? ----- That's one of the primary questions being asked in this thread. So thanks for getting it back on track.


    John
     
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