Can the US afford socialized medicine?

[Magic Man]

I will tell you what is ignorant, the democratic party that held a super majority in the senate and a majority in the house who had a democratic President that could not lead them effectively to get health care passed.

You guys blew it and you call us ignorant. Typical elitism and ultimate hypocrisy

I'm not really sure how that qualifies as ignorant. Last time I checked, ignorant meant something like a lack of knowledge. Can you explain how what you said could in any way possible be considered ignorant?

But yes, they were stupid to not have gotten anything done. However, I'm not really sure how that's elitism or hypocrisy. Could you explain that one, too?

 

[Reverend Rick]

That's the most sensible thing you've said all day.

A blind hog finds an acorn every now and then.

I'm not a Democrat, and since 9-10ths is Canadian, I'm pretty sure he's not a Democrat, either. Has anybody on this thread identified as a Democrat?

Well I sure don't think you voted for John McCain.

Now, as to hypocrisy: how about your party's decades-long commitment to lowering taxes, increasing spending, and then complaining about the deficits you created?

BHO's deficits would make a whore blush by comparison to GWB. He's only been in office 14 months compared to 8 years. :sorry1:

You cannot say the democrats are the fiscal party now can you? :no:

Enlighten me, on what date specific will BHO be taking responsibility for things and quit blaming Bush for Gods sake. You all have milked the mileage out of that one for sure. :slap:

 

[Magic Man]

A blind hog finds an acorn every now and then. Well I sure don't think you voted for John McCain. BHO's deficits would make a whore blush by comparison to GWB. He's only been in office 14 months compared to 8 years.

Maybe it's because those 8 years were what sent the country spiraling out of control which is what necessitated the spending when they were done.

You cannot say the democrats are the fiscal party now can you?

Why not? You certainly can't say the republicans are lately.

Enlighten me, on what date specific will BHO be taking responsibility for things and quit blaming Bush for Gods sake. You all have milked the mileage out of that one for sure.

Maybe once all of the harm GWB caused is done with. It's only been a year. Bush made sure his legacy would be long-lived. It takes a lot more than one year to get out of the mess he left.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I'm not really sure how that qualifies as ignorant. Last time I checked, ignorant meant something like a lack of knowledge. Can you explain how what you said could in any way possible be considered ignorant?

Well, if BHO was not ignorant what would you call him naive?

But yes, they were stupid to not have gotten anything done. However, I'm not really sure how that's elitism or hypocrisy. Could you explain that one, too?

I would be more than glad to mball. You think it comes down to intelligence yet your side lost. It is your attitude that gives off the air of elitism when everything you say boils down to, me smart - you ignorant. If you took one look at the democrats spending lately, just step back and take a good look with your eyes wide open the hypocrisy would be quite evident to you

 

[Smoke]

Well I sure don't think you voted for John McCain.

No, I didn't. I'm not a Christian; does that mean I'm Jewish?

You cannot say the democrats are the fiscal party now can you? :no:

Compared to the Republicans -- yes, they are. How's that for sad?

Enlighten me, on what date specific will BHO be taking responsibility for things and quit blaming Bush for Gods sake. You all have milked the mileage out of that one for sure. :slap:

I'm not here to carry water for Barack Obama. I don't like him, and don't approve of how he's handled things. He and his party have dropped the ball on healthcare, and dropped the ball on equality, too.

But it's not the evil Republicans or the incompetent Democrats who are preventing us from having a decent healthcare system; it's the average citizens who are willing to settle for what we've got or - worse - are absolutely opposed to improvements.

 

[Magic Man]

Well, if BHO was not ignorant what would you call him naive?

What knowledge do you think he lacks?

I would be more than glad to mball. You think it comes down to intelligence yet your side lost.

First, where did I say it comes down to intelligence? Are you misunderstanding the word "ignorance"? Wouldn't that just be priceless?

Just for you, here's the dictionary.com definition for it:

the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.

Is intelligence mentioned in there at all?

Second, how did my side lose?

It is your attitude that gives off the air of elitism when everything you say boils down to, me smart - you ignorant.

Ah, indeed you do seem to be ignorant of the meaning of the word "ignorant". Well, see the definition above for clarification. Then, you'll realize that saying you're ignorant is not saying you're stupid, and it's certainly not claiming that I'm smarter than you.

If you took one look at the democrats spending lately, just step back and take a good look with your eyes wide open the hypocrisy would be quite evident to you

I'm stepping back and taking a look. I still don't see the hypocrisy. Could a smart person like you explain it to an ignorant person like me?

 

[Smoke]

All this money generated by health care most likely passes down to many many families. It is a big part of our nations economy. Socialized medicine would hurt more people than it helped.

I've been thinking about this nugget of economic wisdom, and I have a brilliant idea:

1) Let's make everybody buy insurance, and pass a law that the insurance companies never have to pay any kind of claims under any circumstances.

2) Let's make everybody pay cash up front for medical care -- and then not give them any.

This will save a lot of costs in the insurance and medical industries, increase profits - which are sure to trickle down to the little guy - and really benefit our economy.

Let's see if we can't come up with other areas in which high costs and low quality would be better for everybody. Automobiles that cost $300,000 and fall apart after 10,000 miles, maybe. Million-dollar homes that collapse if you lean on the walls. Billion-dollar rope bridges. We can use the success of our healthcare system to learn how to make every aspect of our lives succeed just as well.

 

[Reverend Rick]

No, I didn't. I'm not a Christian; does that mean I'm Jewish?

Compared to the Republicans -- yes, they are. How's that for sad?


I'm not here to carry water for Barack Obama. I don't like him, and don't approve of how he's handled things. He and his party have dropped the ball on health care, and dropped the ball on equality, too.

But it's not the evil Republicans or the incompetent Democrats who are preventing us from having a decent health care system; it's the average citizens who are willing to settle for what we've got or - worse - are absolutely opposed to improvements.

Smoke, I'm not opposed to improvements. We have to rise above this us vs. them crap. You cannot tell me that any health care plan is better than nothing. After 1500 pages of sold out drivel, no one could support the bill. It was a cluster truck!

Instead of robbing medicare of 600 billion, why not expand and improve on that system? Higher compensation for doctors and available gap insurance so old folks will not lose their home paying 20%.

After we fix the system, we expand it and continue to lower the age.

Mean while we let younger folks stay longer on Mom and Dads policy. (say to 30).

A real fix needs to be tweaked, not dump a one size fits all 1500 page excrement package on the American people.

Let me ask you one thing:

Did you like the health care bill?

 

[Magic Man]

Smoke, I'm not opposed to improvements. We have to rise above this us vs. them crap. You cannot tell me that any health care plan is better than nothing. After 1500 pages of sold out drivel, no one could support the bill. It was a cluster truck!

Of course no one supports that bill. Republicans stamped their feet and refused anything that was presented to them enough that the bill we ended up with doesn't make any real improvements.

Instead of robbing medicare of 600 billion, why not expand and improve on that system? Higher compensation for doctors and available gap insurance so old folks will not lose their home paying 20%.

Wait, robbing medicare? So, when it's something you oppose, it's robbing, but when it's something you support, it's saving money? The idea of that "robbing" is to save money that's being wasted right now.

After we fix the system, we expand it and continue to lower the age.

Mean while we let younger folks stay longer on Mom and Dads policy. (say to 30).

A real fix needs to be tweaked, not dump a one size fits all 1500 page excrement package on the American people.

Let me ask you one thing:

Did you like the health care bill?

Who cares if we like the bill? The bill is a piece of garbage, but then again, the bill isn't anywhere near what we want.

 

[Smoke]

Did you like the health care bill?

No, not at all. I haven't argued in this thread or elsewhere in favor of it. I'm arguing in favor of real reform and real, socialized, universal healthcare.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I like the car example. The current health care bill was nothing I would even consider test driving.

Socialised medicine is robbing the rich to pay for the poor.

How about a system that requires shared sacrifice?

Insist on a co-pay that discourages abuse of a system.

I would like to see a sucessful model program implemented before we go full blown.

Just because you say it would be better does not mean it will be.

If we cannot fix medicare, I am not convinced the government is qualified to run an even bigger program.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Of course no one supports that bill. Republicans stamped their feet and refused anything that was presented to them enough that the bill we ended up with doesn't make any real improvements.

There you go again blaming the republicans.

THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE DID NOT NEED ONE REPUBLICAN TO PASS HEALTH CARE DUH!

Wait, robbing medicare? So, when it's something you oppose, it's robbing, but when it's something you support, it's saving money? The idea of that "robbing" is to save money that's being wasted right now.

So the government is wasting money on one program but they will not do it again with the next one?

Who cares if we like the bill? The bill is a piece of garbage, but then again, the bill isn't anywhere near what we want.

The thing is, your not in the majority here. :sorry1:

You want a health care plan? The first thing you have to do is quit promising free candy to people at others expense. If this country is ever going to be great again we will have to quit rewarding folks who fail miserably. That includes banks, car manufactures, insurance companies, or just plain folks.

 

[Reverend Rick]

What knowledge do you think he lacks?

President Obama lacks leadership.

 

[Falvlun]

There you go again blaming the republicans.

THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE DID NOT NEED ONE REPUBLICAN TO PASS HEALTH CARE DUH!

Not directly related, but it reminded me of something I found strange. I listen to a lot of talk radio, and a lot of the people calling in are complaining about having health care reform "crammed down their throats". What cramming? If the Dems were interested in cramming it down their throats, then you are right, they could have passed it without one Republican vote. But they, and particularly Obama I think, wanted health care reform to be bipartisan.

Insist on a co-pay that discourages abuse of a system.

I'm down with that.

Although, there might need to be an exception or cap for those diagnosed with chronic conditions in which they need to see a doctor on a regular basis.

I would like to see a sucessful model program implemented before we go full blown.

But that's the thing we've been trying to say. There are multiple European, Asian, and even a North American country that have implemented sucessful programs. Take your pick.

 

[dust1n]

To OP: Cut the defense budget in half.

 

[T-Dawg]

I like the car example. The current health care bill was nothing I would even consider test driving.

Fortunately for you, it's already been test driven.

Socialised medicine is robbing the rich to pay for the poor.

No, it's preventing the rich from robbing the poor, in order to reduce healthcare prices for everyone.

I would like to see a sucessful model program implemented before we go full blown.

How about France?

If we cannot fix medicare, I am not convinced the government is qualified to run an even bigger program.

To be honest, I'm unaware of the problems with medicare. But I bet it has something to do with being systematically underfunded and intentionally staffed with idiots (by republican administrations), like a lot of other government programs that republicans claim don't work.

 

[Sunstone]

If I recall, leading firms in the insurance industry made 12.2 billion in profits last year -- up 56% from the year before -- while dumping 2.7 million Americans from insurance coverage. What's good for profits is not necessarily good for Americans.

 

[Sunstone]

President Obama lacks leadership.

Inexperienced.

 

[Smoke]

I like the car example. The current health care bill was nothing I would even consider test driving.

I agree.

Socialised medicine is robbing the rich to pay for the poor.

Capitalism is robbing the workers to benefit the capitalists.

Unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required.

Insist on a co-pay that discourages abuse of a system.

I don't have a problem with a reasonable co-pay except for hardship cases.

I would like to see a sucessful model program implemented before we go full blown.

That could be workable.

Just because you say it would be better does not mean it will be.

I don't say it will be; I say it can be. It would take a lot of work and planning.

If we cannot fix medicare, I am not convinced the government is qualified to run an even bigger program.

In the present political climate, I doubt we can really fix anything. I don't think the Republicans want to fix Medicare; they want it to fail.

 

[Smoke]

There you go again blaming the republicans.

THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE DID NOT NEED ONE REPUBLICAN TO PASS HEALTH CARE DUH!

The President failed to lead his party, and even if he had stepped up, there's the problem with the Blue Dogs, who might as well be Republicans.