Buddha and Christ identical Beings

[siti]

Here in this RF, we have shown essential concepts in scriptures are the same.

Excerpt from a New Dictionary for Beginners in the Study of Bahai Theology and Argumentation:

shown /ʃəʊn/ verb, past participle

[1] to have stated as an incontrovertible fact without having troubled oneself to investigate or present either corroborating evidence or logical supportive argumentation;

[2] to claim to have proved by mere (but possibly endless) repetition an otherwise entirely unsubstantiated statement of blind credulity​

 

[CG Didymus]

For me, believing in Bahaullah, Muhammad, jesus, buddha...comes by putting pieces of puzzle together to see the complete picture. The fact that I see in this case, Buddha, christ, or Krishna made identical statement about their claim, is just one piece of puzzle of the many pieces. Consider, how, the statements of Bahaullah, about the firstness and the lastness of these Founders of great religions is compatible with the recorded traditions. As regards to other ideas, such as reincarnation, Bahais do not say, Krishna or buddha did not speak of rebirth, or return. Bahais say, Krishna or buddha did speak of the concept of return, and rebirth but not in a literal sense. We believe, essentially, literalism has been one of the main reasons that some of the teachings has been misunderstood.

Why are you arguing that the Buddha and Jesus said similar things when it was the newly born Buddha that allegedly said this?

It is said that immediately after his birth, he stood up, took seven steps north, and uttered:[2]

"I am chief of the world,
Eldest am I in the world,
Foremost am I in the world.
This is the last birth.
There is now no more coming to be.
​

Do you really, really think that right after being born the person that would later become enlightened and become the Buddha could walk and talk?

 

[CG Didymus]

They are physically human bearers of the manifestation of the message and attributes of God. There is no necessary time nor place that they became enlightened or anointed with the message. With Jesus it was symbolic of the descent of the dove.

Since this is about the Buddha, I always thought there was a point at which he became enlightened. He wasn't born that way.

 

[CG Didymus]

To me that is the crucial question about how to understand the metephor of the Virgin Birth. They are born of the Holy Spirit even though they share our humaity.

Regards Tony

Tony, I'm still waiting for your answer about the questions I have concerning the Book of Revelation in that other thread. Are you waiting until after the fast? When you have more strength?

 

[CG Didymus]

Authenticity is definitely a big problem. That is why we constantly need Messengers to come to re establish the truth.

How difficult would it have been for them to write this stuff down themselves? Supposedly God write his commandments in stone. What happened to them? Why can't God preserve his laws in his own writing? Especially knowing that people will mess them up and corrupt his intentions. And then to leave things messed up for hundreds of years?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Tony, I'm still waiting for your answer about the questions I have concerning the Book of Revelation in that other thread. Are you waiting until after the fast? When you have more strength?

Sorry CG, life is busy and sometimes I do not get back for a while. Then I only get to catch upon some recent replies.

The fast does take up time I used to allot for replies.

The fast finishes today, thus sunset is Naw Ruz, may a happy New Year be yours.

My alerts are also playing up, they do not seem to be updating?

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Baha'u'llah said they had the same source. Both the Bible and Quran tell us there is One God.

This it is not a new concept, except Bahau'llah included all the Messengers that are not seen as the Abrahamic line.

Regards Tony

Sometimes we need to separate the NT from the Jewish Scriptures. There is one God in Judaism. But is there one God in the NT? If there is, how did Christians get it so wrong as to assume God was a Trinity?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How difficult would it have been for them to write this stuff down themselves? Supposedly God write his commandments in stone. What happened to them? Why can't God preserve his laws in his own writing? Especially knowing that people will mess them up and corrupt his intentions. And then to leave things messed up for hundreds of years?

Every age has its test. Free will does not work unless there is an ocean of choices.

In the end it is how we put into practice the teachings, how loving do we really become? How selfless do we really become?

RegardsTony

 

[CG Didymus]

Sorry CG, life is busy and sometimes I do not get back for a while. Then I only get to catch upon some recent replies.

The fast does take up time I used to allot for replies.

The fast finishes today, thus sunset is Naw Ruz, may a happy New Year be yours.

My alerts are also playing up, they do not seem to be updating?

Regards Tony

Happy New Year to you too. What year is it for Baha'is now?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sometimes we need to separate the NT from the Jewish Scriptures. There is one God in Judaism. But is there one God in the NT? If there is, how did Christians get it so wrong as to assume God was a Trinity?

Christ was introducing the concept of the Messenger and how they are not God but in the station of the Messenger they are seen to be God.

You would know all the passages where Jesus makes it clear He is not God, but also Christ shows that he can be seen to be God. Guess humanity could not grasp that concept. Thus Muhammad corrected the mistake and took us back to One God.

Baha'u'llah then showed us what Christ meant.

To me that is all Biblical, all supported. You must know by now the passages we would offer that would support those concepts.

It has been a very hot fast and not easy to do. But will make it until sunset tonight. I enjoy the challenge it places on body and mind.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Happy New Year to you too. What year is it for Baha'is now?

It will be BE176 - Regards and look after yourself -Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I believe Jesus was God in the flesh and the Buddha was only a religious philosopher.

Apparently, even some Buddhists agree with you...

The Buddha was born as Siddhartha Gautama in Nepal around 2,500 years ago. He did not claim to be a god or a prophet. He was a human being who became Enlightened, understanding life in the deepest way possible. Siddhartha was born into the royal family of a small kingdom on the Indian-Nepalese border.​

So these Buddhists say that the Buddha was human and became enlightened... that he was not a god or a prophet. Yet, to Baha'is, he is a manifestation from the one true God. Somebody's wrong.

 

[loverofhumanity]

How difficult would it have been for them to write this stuff down themselves? Supposedly God write his commandments in stone. What happened to them? Why can't God preserve his laws in his own writing? Especially knowing that people will mess them up and corrupt his intentions. And then to leave things messed up for hundreds of years?

As we develop we overcome these obstacles but they were just the way we were then. Since we’ve advanced now we are better able to preserve history. Also in past ages not everyone could read or write so it was difficult to keep accurate records.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Apparently, even some Buddhists agree with you...

The Buddha was born as Siddhartha Gautama in Nepal around 2,500 years ago. He did not claim to be a god or a prophet. He was a human being who became Enlightened, understanding life in the deepest way possible. Siddhartha was born into the royal family of a small kingdom on the Indian-Nepalese border.​

So these Buddhists say that the Buddha was human and became enlightened... that he was not a god or a prophet. Yet, to Baha'is, he is a manifestation from the one true God. Somebody's wrong.

There is a prophecy by Buddha that the future Buddha, Maitreya, would teach the same truths He taught.

If Baha’u’llah is that One and He teaches there is a God then that means originally Buddha taught about God.

I am not the first Buddha to come upon earth; nor shall I be the last. In due time, another Buddha will arise in this world, a Holy One, a Supremely Enlightened One, endowed with wisdom, in conduct auspicious, knowing the universe, an incomparable leader of men, a master of devas and men. He will reveal to you the same Eternal Truths which I have taught you. He will proclaim a religious life, wholly perfect and pure; such as I now proclaim.'

1. The same Eternal Truths which I have taught you

Some proofs that originally Buddha did teach about God is this passage.

There is the unborn, uncreated, unformed, unoriginated, and therefore there is an escape from the born, created, formed, originated. If it were not for the unborn, uncreated, unformed, unoriginated, there would be no escape from the born, created, formed, originated, but because there is the unborn, uncreated, unformed, unoriginated, there is an escape, there is liberation from the born, created, formed, originated (Udana VIII.3).

 

[loverofhumanity]

Apparently, even some Buddhists agree with you...

The Buddha was born as Siddhartha Gautama in Nepal around 2,500 years ago. He did not claim to be a god or a prophet. He was a human being who became Enlightened, understanding life in the deepest way possible. Siddhartha was born into the royal family of a small kingdom on the Indian-Nepalese border.​

So these Buddhists say that the Buddha was human and became enlightened... that he was not a god or a prophet. Yet, to Baha'is, he is a manifestation from the one true God. Somebody's wrong.

But here’s the thing. Regardless of how we view Buddha’s station the important thing is we believe in Him and revere Him just as Buddhists do. He is after all the Enlightened One, the Buddha. More importantly we don’t see Baha’u’llah as being superior to Buddha but see Them both as One.

 

[crossfire]

There is a prophecy by Buddha that the future Buddha, Maitreya, would teach the same truths He taught.

If Baha’u’llah is that One and He teaches there is a God then that means originally Buddha taught about God.

I am not the first Buddha to come upon earth; nor shall I be the last. In due time, another Buddha will arise in this world, a Holy One, a Supremely Enlightened One, endowed with wisdom, in conduct auspicious, knowing the universe, an incomparable leader of men, a master of devas and men. He will reveal to you the same Eternal Truths which I have taught you. He will proclaim a religious life, wholly perfect and pure; such as I now proclaim.'

1. The same Eternal Truths which I have taught you

According to tradition, we are only about half-way there. We still have another 2500 years to go.

Some proofs that originally Buddha did teach about God is this passage.

There is the unborn, uncreated, unformed, unoriginated, and therefore there is an escape from the born, created, formed, originated. If it were not for the unborn, uncreated, unformed, unoriginated, there would be no escape from the born, created, formed, originated, but because there is the unborn, uncreated, unformed, unoriginated, there is an escape, there is liberation from the born, created, formed, originated (Udana VIII.3).

This is about the abiding consciousness that you can't watch arise and cease. It is by this consciousness that you can observe the monkey-mind thoughts arise and cease. I liken the abiding, passive consciousness as the yin aspect of consciousness, and the stuff you can watch arise and pass away as the yang aspect of consciousness. It really doesn't have anything to do with god. It has to do with your mind and how it works.

 

[loverofhumanity]

According to tradition, we are only about half-way there. We still have another 2500 years to go.


This is about the abiding consciousness that you can't watch arise and cease. It is by this consciousness that you can observe the monkey-mind thoughts arise and cease. I liken the abiding, passive consciousness as the yin aspect of consciousness, and the stuff you can watch arise and pass away as the yang aspect of consciousness. It really doesn't have anything to do with god. It has to do with your mind and how it works.

The Buddha predicted that women’s entrance into the sangha would halve the duration of the true Dhamma.

So times already up and Maitreya has already appeared.

And the Blessed One, foreseeing the danger that lurked in admitting women to the Sangha, protested that while the good religion ought surely to last a thousand years it would, when women joined it, likely decay after five hundred years; but observing the zeal of Pajāpatī and Yasodharā for leading a religious life he could no longer resist and assented to have them admitted as his disciples.

So the 5,000 years initially predicted by Buddha for His religion was halved to 2,500 years and ended around the time of the appearance of Baha’u’llah Who we believe to be the Promised Maitreya.

 

[crossfire]

The Buddha predicted that women’s entrance into the sangha would halve the duration of the true Dhamma.

So times already up and Maitreya has already appeared.

And the Blessed One, foreseeing the danger that lurked in admitting women to the Sangha, protested that while the good religion ought surely to last a thousand years it would, when women joined it, likely decay after five hundred years; but observing the zeal of Pajāpatī and Yasodharā for leading a religious life he could no longer resist and assented to have them admitted as his disciples.

​

Buddha added extra vinaya rules for nuns in order to account for this. (Which are quite telling as to why Buddha said what he did. The reasoning behind it was because men bully women, women seduce men, and the extra vinaya rules for women are designed to counter this.)​

So the 5,000 years initially predicted by Buddha for His religion was halved to 2,500 years and ended around the time of the appearance of Baha’u’llah Who we believe to be the Promised Maitreya.

Nope. According to tradition, we are still only about half-way there.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Buddha added extra vinaya rules for nuns in order to account for this. (Which are quite telling as to why Buddha said what he did. The reasoning behind it was because men bully women, and the extra vinaya rules for women are designed to counter this.)​

Nope. According to tradition, we are still only about half-way there.

He said the duration of His religion was halved and did not retract that statement. So it stands.2,500 years is the duration of Buddhism which according to Buddha has ended.

Buddha said His religion would last 5,000 years but because women entered the sangha it would be halved.

He then went on to describe the Five Disappearnces of 1,000 years each but as it was halved it became 500 years each and the five disappearances of five hundred years each means His religion is only to endure 2,500 years.

The Duration of Gotama Sasana (Dispensation)

"The hero that shall follow you
As Buddha, of what sort is He?
The account in full, I fain would learn
Declare to me, thou Seeing One."

The Buddha then declared:

"...Our cycle is a happy one
Three leaders (Buddhas) have already lived
Kakusandha, Konagamana and the leader Kassapa.
The Buddha now supreme am I
But after me Metteyya comes
While still this happy cycle lasts..."

(Sasana Year 5,000 - See Anagata-Vamsa Desana)

The Buddha then continued, telling Venerable Sariputta how these events would occur. He said,

"After my decease first will be the decline and ending of my teachings. This will happen in five stages as follows:

1. The disappearance of the attainments
2. The disappearance of the method
3. The disappearance of the learning
4. The disappearance of the symbols
5. The disappearance of the relics."

Because of entrance of women into the sangha each disappearance is 500 years so 2,500 years is the duration of the religion according to Buddha.

 

[crossfire]

He said the duration of His religion was halved and did not retract that statement. So it stands.2,500 years is the duration of Buddhism which according to Buddha has ended.

Buddha said His religion would last 5,000 years but because women entered the sangha it would be halved.

He then went on to describe the Five Disappearnces of 1,000 years each but as it was halved it became 500 years each and the five disappearances of five hundred years each means His religion is only to endure 2,500 years.

The Duration of Gotama Sasana (Dispensation)

"The hero that shall follow you
As Buddha, of what sort is He?
The account in full, I fain would learn
Declare to me, thou Seeing One."

The Buddha then declared:

"...Our cycle is a happy one
Three leaders (Buddhas) have already lived
Kakusandha, Konagamana and the leader Kassapa.
The Buddha now supreme am I
But after me Metteyya comes
While still this happy cycle lasts..."

(Sasana Year 5,000 - See Anagata-Vamsa Desana)

The Buddha then continued, telling Venerable Sariputta how these events would occur. He said,

"After my decease first will be the decline and ending of my teachings. This will happen in five stages as follows:

1. The disappearance of the attainments
2. The disappearance of the method
3. The disappearance of the learning
4. The disappearance of the symbols
5. The disappearance of the relics."

Because of entrance of women into the sangha each disappearance is 500 years so 2,500 years is the duration of the religion according to Buddha.

Did you even read your link? Here is one excerpt:

THE DISAPPEARANCE OF THE LEARNING
As long as the texts of the tripitaka - Vinaya, Sutta and Abhidhamma - which constitute the words of the Buddha are with us, the disappearance of learning will not have occurred. But as time goes on there will be irreligious kings and courtiers under irreligious governments. Then the people throughout the kingdom or countries will be irreligious.
The country will not prosper, there will be drought and other hardship with famine and scarcity of food. The devotees will gradually stop providing the four requirements to the monks (Sangha): robes, alms, support for the sick, and dwelling places. The pious, not receiving the requirements, will not enter the order (Sangha), and the learned will not teach their knowledge to the novices. Learning will slowly disappear.
When the learning disappears, it will be the great work, the Abhidhamma, which will first disappear, starting with the Patthaana, the Yamaka, the Katha-vatthu, the Puggala-pa-atti, the Dhatu-kathaa, and so on. When the Abhidhamma Pitaka has disappeared, the Sutta Pitaka will disappear. First the Anguttara Nikaaya, then the Samyutta Nikaaya, the Majjhima-Nikaaya, the Digha Nikaaya, and so on. Only the Jaataka stories will be remembered. Then, slowly, the Jaataka stories will disappear, first the Vessantara Jaataka, then the Apannaka Jaataka, and so on until all of the Jaataka are forgotten. Then the people will only remember the Vinaya Pitaka. And then slowly the Vinaya Pitaka will disappear. So long as four lines of the Dhamma remain the learning will be with us. But when the people are unable to recall four lines of a stanza of the Dhamma, then the learning will disappear.​

It's pretty obvious that we have the texts, and we still have people who chant the texts regularly. The disappearance of the learning has not occurred, despite the fact that there are those who seem to enjoy obscuring the learning!