Brexit in a nutshell

[Estro Felino]

Politicians are neither able nor expected to "serve the State alone".

For that matter, no one is.

Heck, the State does not even exist in and of itself.

As for the lodges... well, they may mean even less than political states.

There is an Italian philosopher, Gentile who said what the state really is. And since I have a law degree , I studied that our juridic foundations depend on the centrality of the state-community.

The state must prevent the rich and the powerful from oppressing the poor and the weak.

 

[Notanumber]

Brexit has lanced the boil to expose the pus that is the Remoaner establishment.

 

[ratiocinator]

Brexit has lanced the boil to expose the pus that is the Remoaner establishment.

Don't be absurd. This is a division about something that was a non-issue with most voters prior to 2016. It's been manufactured by far-right popularists for their own power and profit. None of the rich elite leaders of Brexit care a jot about the UK, except insofar as they can exploit it.

 

[Notanumber]

Don't be absurd. This is a division about something that was a non-issue with most voters prior to 2016. It's been manufactured by far-right popularists for their own power and profit. None of the rich elite leaders of Brexit care a jot about the UK, except insofar as they can exploit it.

A General Election would be a very good disinfectant.

 

[ratiocinator]

A General Election would be a very good disinfectant.

As soon as no-deal is no longer an immediate threat, I'm sure there will be one, but I'm not convinced it will make much difference. What we need is a referendum on the realistic options (as opposed to the fantasy that was sold last time).

 

[Notanumber]

As soon as no-deal is no longer an immediate threat, I'm sure there will be one, but I'm not convinced it will make much difference. What we need is a referendum on the realistic options (as opposed to the fantasy that was sold last time).

This suggests that you are out of touch with reality -

Brexit bombshell: Brits have completely lost confidence in country’s MPs - shock poll

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Italy has nothing against Belgians (our last queen was Belgian) but most Italians hate all that the EU represents, and think Brussels is the headquarters of a obscure Financial Technocratic-Freemasonic power.

In fact the person chosen to be the Italian Commissioner by Von der Leyen is Gentiloni, a Freemason.

And I'm very positive that most of them aren't able to give any rational foundation for their hatred.
As I see in Belgium (and in brexit), those who are passionatly against the EU, more often then not, have actually no clue what the EU actually does.

In the UK, they will start understanding that when all the stuff they've always taken for granted will disappear or become extremely expensive or just a plain hassle.

So you're Italian. There are coastal regions in Italy that are very popular among the british for summer vacation.

Let's see how tourism there will take a nosedive when it turns out that Brits suddenly can't "just" book a holiday there without an admistrative hell to get their papers in order and/or see how vacation there will suddenly see a cost rise of 40-50%.

People have no idea how many aspects of every day life have become "cheap" or easy, as a direct result of the EU.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

In fact Italians could not care less whether UK stays or leaves (they don't even have the euro). If they leave, our relations with them will remain unchanged

That is completely delusional.

, since we have many British citizens living here.

All of which will suddenly find themselves illegally in the country, if brexit happens without a deal.

The Brussels powers do care because they are banking powers, and without Britain their interests will be in jeopardy.

No, that's not the reaon.
Seems you aren't that informed on the matters either.

 

[Estro Felino]

And I'm very positive that most of them aren't able to give any rational foundation for their hatred.
As I see in Belgium (and in brexit), those who are passionatly against the EU, more often then not, have actually no clue what the EU actually does.

In the UK, they will start understanding that when all the stuff they've always taken for granted will disappear or become extremely expensive or just a plain hassle.

So you're Italian. There are coastal regions in Italy that are very popular among the british for summer vacation.

Let's see how tourism there will take a nosedive when it turns out that Brits suddenly can't "just" book a holiday there without an admistrative hell to get their papers in order and/or see how vacation there will suddenly see a cost rise of 40-50%.

People have no idea how many aspects of every day life have become "cheap" or easy, as a direct result of the EU.

Not only that. There are many British citizens living here working as teachers or professors. It is already predisposed mutual relations between the 2 states will remain unchanged.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But they aren't required to do anything to help the UK through the adjustment period. Quite the contrary, the EU has a mandate to take care of the interests of members. Right?

Sure.

On October 31, UK leaves the EU. Right?

We'll see. I'll believe it when I see it happening. At this moment, I wouldn't put any money on it.

Boris Johnson is in charge of the terms. Right?

Not really.
On the one side, there's May's deal with a fullblown backtop. The EU won't have any issues with reverting to their own original proposal: a northern ireland only backstop.

I wouldn't count on much else room for discussion... It will be may's deal with the full blown backstop or their original deal with a NI backstop.

Boris likes to scream about his "no-deal" option, but parliament has just made that illegal which forces him by law to argue for another extension.

However, if the with or without extension, either of two deals remains "unacceptable" to the brits, then the EU won't be allowing another extension I think.

In any case, no, I think the last one can say about this situation, is that "Boris is charge of term". If anything, his hands are cuffed behind his back and he's upside down suspended by his feet.

The EU didn't do that. His own party members and the house of commons did that.

Or, he admits that Brexit is a terrible idea and puts it off until next year. Which the brexiters have been doing for years already.

If Brexit is a good idea, supported by the British populace, then why is it still hanging fire?
Tom

I ask that question differently...

If brexit is such a good idea and if the UK would become so much better of it supposedly, then how come that this whole thing seems to be making the UK imploding from the inside out?
I don't think this country has ever been this divided.

It's panic all round, from both sides. They have no clue what to do.

 

[Estro Felino]

That is completely delusional.



All of which will suddenly find themselves illegally in the country, if brexit happens without a deal.



No, that's not the reaon.
Seems you aren't that informed on the matters either.

There is a guy called Verhofstadt (forgive the pun...lol) who behaves as the Lord and Master of the EU.
His nauseauting arrogance is the emblem of a technocratic dictatorship.

Unjustified arrogance since he is nobody and with all due respect, Belgium is a tiny country.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Not only that. There are many British citizens living here working as teachers or professors. It is already predisposed mutual relations between the 2 states will remain unchanged.

You don't get it, do you?

No-deal brexit would turn these people into illegal residents.
There's no such thing as Italian - UK relations after the UK leaves the EU.

To state that the relations between these countries will remain unchanged after one leaves as a EU member is as delusional as it gets.

It doesn't work that way.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There is a guy called Verhofstadt (forgive the pun...lol) who behaves as the Lord and Master of the EU.

I'm very aware of him. I voted for him when he became Prime Minister in Belgium and I voted for him for the EU. We call him "mr Europe". In many ways, the EU project is at least in part, his vision.

His nauseauting arrogance is the emblem of a technocratic dictatorship.

I respect your opnion. I think the guy is very capable and a visionary. Very passionate to.

Unjustified arrogance since he is nobody and with all due respect, Belgium is a tiny country.

I disagree he's arrogant, bu it's not unjustified at all. He's done an immense job in service of the EU. That he comes from a tiny country is irrelevant.

He's one of those people who's present at every meeting. As opposed to some others who happily bank their EU mandate salary every month but who's seat is almost always empty during parliament sessions.
Him - not so much. He actually does his job and actually does a lot more then he is required to.

He's intense, sure. I actually like that about him. He stands up and fights for what he believes in and he actually does the job he is paid for to do, and more.

I think that's a breath of fresh air in today's world, where I see half of parliament being empty while all of them get paid a royal income.

If it were upto me, every politician would be fired instantly if they don't have at least 90% attendance and for the remaining 10% actually having good and demonstrable reasons for not being there.


btw: no idea why you suddenly started talking about Verhofstad as the post you are replying to had nothing whatsoever to do with him and everything with your delusional remark about brexit and what it will mean for UK citizens living in Italy and Italian / UK relations afterwards.

 

[Estro Felino]

I'm very aware of him. I voted for him when he became Prime Minister in Belgium and I voted for him for the EU. We call him "mr Europe". In many ways, the EU project is at least in part, his vision.



I respect your opnion. I think the guy is very capable and a visionary. Very passionate to.



I disagree he's arrogant, bu it's not unjustified at all. He's done an immense job in service of the EU. That he comes from a tiny country is irrelevant.

He's one of those people who's present at every meeting. As opposed to some others who happily bank their EU mandate salary every month but who's seat is almost always empty during parliament sessions.
Him - not so much. He actually does his job and actually does a lot more then he is required to.

He's intense, sure. I actually like that about him. He stands up and fights for what he believes in and he actually does the job he is paid for to do, and more.

I think that's a breath of fresh air in today's world, where I see half of parliament being empty while all of them get paid a royal income.

If it were upto me, every politician would be fired instantly if they don't have at least 90% attendance and for the remaining 10% actually having good and demonstrable reasons for not being there.


btw: no idea why you suddenly started talking about Verhofstad as the post you are replying to had nothing whatsoever to do with him and everything with your delusional remark about brexit and what it will mean for UK citizens living in Italy and Italian / UK relations afterwards.

Read this^, @Notanumber .... more reasons to exit this EU-madness

 

[Estro Felino]

Btw... Italians do not agree with a United States of Europe. If you want it, do it without us.
We will exit someday....
Better to become a Russian colony, than to be ruled by Verhofstadt

 

[LuisDantas]

There is an Italian philosopher, Gentile who said what the state really is. And since I have a law degree , I studied that our juridic foundations depend on the centrality of the state-community.

The state must prevent the rich and the powerful from oppressing the poor and the weak.

Has that ever worked? How often has that even been attempted?

 

[LuisDantas]

Brexit has lanced the boil to expose the pus that is the Remoaner establishment.

You misspelled "leaver". Or maybe "ERG", or even "Tory".

 

[LuisDantas]

This suggests that you are out of touch with reality -

Brexit bombshell: Brits have completely lost confidence in country’s MPs - shock poll

Actually, it does not. How did you come from that article to such a wild statement?

 

[Estro Felino]

Has that ever worked? How often has that even been attempted?

Even ancient Romans venered Iustitia as a deity.
Protecting the victims from the perpetrators

 

[LuisDantas]

There is a guy called Verhofstadt (forgive the pun...lol) who behaves as the Lord and Master of the EU.
His nauseauting arrogance is the emblem of a technocratic dictatorship.

Unjustified arrogance since he is nobody and with all due respect, Belgium is a tiny country.

So much for your aversion for imperialism, I see.