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Brexit in a nutshell
- Thread starter TagliatelliMonster
- Start date
I meant the British don't have the €
Oh.I meant the British don't have the €
I thought everyone knew that.
Looked like brilliance to me, back when Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain were trashing it.
Or was it P, Ireland, G, and S?
You know, the PIGS?
Tom
Yes..the Euro system is not exactly suitable for the economies of the Mediterranean aerea. But unlike those four, Italy is a net contributor and is the 2nd industrial powee in the EU.
After all..even France was damaged by the Euro.
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Augustus
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If a country can't possibly be allowed to belong to the economic community without the unnecessary political stuff tacked on top because it would be too good a deal, perhaps a lot of the political stuff isn't really that good after all.
Like forming a free trade agreement with a country with which you have a very large balance of trade surplus.
This is like when religious people say "the only reason you don't believe is god is because you're too arrogant".
Brexit was supported right across the political spectrum for myriad different reasons, so painting it simply as 'destroying things out of pride' is facile and reductionist.
You don't think anyone could find legitimate fault with a large, out-of-touch, minimally democratic bureaucracy with a love for red-tape and centralising power and that's a godsend for corporate lobbying?
If you are interested in a different perspective, interesting whether you agree with it or not (both <10mins).
Brexit and Illiberal Europe
A weekly reflection on a topical issue. John Gray argues that few remainers in the Brexit debate have noticed the illiberal and fragmented Europe that has recently come into being.
BBC Radio 4 - A Point of View, Brexit and Illiberal Europe
Modern-day Empires
John Gray says the idea that empire has had its day is one of the delusions of our age. Old empires, he says, are being replaced by new ones - in China, Russia and - he argues - in Europe. He examines the idea of a European "empire of the good" - one that is liberal and democratic throughout.
A Point of View - Modern-day Empires - BBC Sounds
Augustus
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Decentralisation is a great idea, although a federation of localities would be better than independence as you need a common defence policy. It's far more democratic, moves power closer to the people, allows tailored policies rather than 'one size fits all' compromises, means decision makers are not isolated from the impacts of their decisions, etc.
Centralisation of power and distance between rulers and ruled are two of the biggest problems with the EU (and most countries).
Freemasons are harmless, at least here in Brazil.
I am not in a good position to guess why Italians would hold such an unfavorable view of the EU, but from what I have seen it sure reminds me of the time when Brazil had to beg for aid from the IMF.
Brazilians never quite forgave the IMF for daring to rescue us.
Its very representative of the remainer opinion, but thats all. Its also the way that the politicos like to refer to anyone who disagrees. Disagreement = idiocy to a politico. "Oh you only disagree because you are an idiot." No, that is not spot on. That is ignoring the other side's point of view.
This is what matters. The EU moves too fast to consolidate the states into an entity. It ignores all the warning signs that the concrete is dirty and dry. The union could only work if things move more slowly, but driven by business interests and banking it moves at a reckless pace to create a unity that feels false to too many people.
Every political resource is used to try to convince populations that they should want to stay in, but hasn't been enough. The EU sprinkles promises of utopia as compensation for problems. It needs to give people some slack and stop pressing for more union right now. Its too much, too fast.
Augustus
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Who could possibly fail to be grateful after being lorded over by those who helped to cause the problems in the first place?
Comparing Italy and Brazil...well...is not apt.
Italy has hidden cards it hasn't played yet.
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Augustus
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Yes, it's pure fantasy to note there were many different reasons that people favoured Brexit hence the fact that it was supported by people from right across the political spectrum from far left all the way to far right
Koldo
Outstanding Member
It is as much of a burden as it is a benefit as it ensures the economical advantages that can be gained.
To expect to be able take advantage of that structure without contributing towards it is unreasonable.
'Charity starts at the home.'
Koldo
Outstanding Member
That's exactly what the EU is saying.
The EU isn't home. The EU is foreigners and Britain is home.
That is so darned arbitrary. I would expect a British citizen to know that. You have, after all, reached far.
Calling an ethno-linguistic group with a shared history, culture, religion and set of values that raised me my home is abitrary?
Koldo
Outstanding Member
I think you didn't quite get what I meant. I meant that the EU is prioritizing itself first over the UK.
But the EU doesn't really have a choice. UK decided to divorce, and EU is stuck with the ramifications of that. But they aren't required to do anything to help the UK through the adjustment period.
Quite the contrary, the EU has a mandate to take care of the interests of members. Right?
On October 31, UK leaves the EU. Right?
Boris Johnson is in charge of the terms. Right?
Or, he admits that Brexit is a terrible idea and puts it off until next year. Which the brexiters have been doing for years already.
If Brexit is a good idea, supported by the British populace, then why is it still hanging fire?
Tom