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BREXIT-DOA

Discussion in 'European Politics' started by Bob Jones, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    Often the quickest path from ignorance to arrogance and/or condescension
    They also seemed to emphasise the likelihood of Turkey joining the EU soon (but wasn't actually likely), and floods of immigrants from there or through Turkey - even using an image that wasn't what it supposedly depicted. Most of those I've come across who wanted to leave the EU seemed to have had immigration as a major issue.
     
  2. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    What vote in the world hasn't been delivered on lies,only the uninformed would vote on the word of a politician.
     
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  3. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    I would think this is partly true,Mrs Merkel in her infinite wisdom allowed a million refugees from Syria,no checks on who they were and one million people from outside of Europe are a big problem because nobody actually wants them,still she felt good about it.
     
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  4. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    If you look at the history back to the common market referendum in 1975 you will see how much has changed to what was voted for and none of which has been voted for,for years many people have seen things agreed to for which they had no say in,for people in this country this is not acceptable.

    Cameron previously to the brexit referendum tried to get some changes to the EU,this proved futile so the referendum happened which was inevitable and needed,otherwise,and some politicians are still trying to do it,the public will want what the public get.
     
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  5. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    If Leavers hate anyone, they would be justified in hating quislings IMHO
     
  6. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    I keep noticing the depth of your analysis.
    Tom
     
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  7. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    Thanks
     
  8. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes:

    So, that's your response?

    To you, it doesn't matter that this hugely important vote with lasting long term impact on future generations, for better or worse, was based on lies and bad intel...? And your reasoning for that is some silly generic statement ridiculing democratic systems that "voters are never well informed anyway"?

    That makes it ok then? Really?



    owkay then....

    At least somehow you're acknowledging that the vote happened based on lies and bad intel. I guess that's something.
     
  9. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    So how many of them ended up in the UK?
     
  10. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    You're welcome.
    It was the kindest bit of sarcasm I could think of, off the top of my head.

    My point was this:
    I can see lots of problems being created by doing Brexit the way it's being done. The Remainers don't have much trouble describing them. The Brexiters don't seem able to follow suit. They can't seem to describe the advantages that will outweigh the problems. Mostly, I read things like "£315,000,000/week for NHS", "Theresa May is a Remoaner", "but sovereignty!", etc.

    IOW, falsehoods and name calling and vague accusations, is what I read about supporting Brexit as it is being done. It's not that I have a vested opinion, I don't. Almost everything I know about the issue I learned here on RF.
    But I can't help but notice the difference in quality of information and analysis between the Brexiters and the Remainers. Whether loosening ties to Europe is a good idea or not, the way Brexit is being done is definitely not a good idea.
    Tom
     
  11. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    No idea,afaik many are still trying to get here.
     
  12. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    Yes it did and from both sides but people have wanted this vote for so long,it's not like Cameron said "oh why don't we have a referendum",people were pretty clued up on the problems with the eu, and Cameron had exhausted his attempt at reforms so really he had no other option.
     
  13. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    No, Cameron didn't want a Referendum but he saw it as the only way to keep the Tory Party together; he hoped to put it to bed for a generation.
    Trouble was, the Leavers had been planning and plotting for 20+ years; the Remainers were complacent and as history tells us, they lost.
     
  14. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    Exactly,20 years plus people have asked for a referendum and not just conservatives,the remainers prior to the referendum didn't want us to have a choice in the matter.
     
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  15. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    No, the Remainers thought everything was fine --- as it was
     
  16. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, no. Only one side has been exposed as engaging in illegal campaigning which also included the deliberate spread of targetted fake news in social media.

    I have yet to hear any leaver present a decent argument on how the UK will be better of as not being a member of the EU. I see no evidence of them having any kind of clue.

    And none of this changes anything about the illegal practices and deliberate dishonesty during the leave campaign.

    You could also ask yourself: if there were actual good and rational reasons for leaving, then why would they have to resort to such practices to win the vote? When you have to cheat in order to win, likely it means that your arguments aren't good enough by themselves.....
     
  17. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    I disagree,people have been unhappy with the eu all the way back,the way it's run,changes implented without our say,we've never really been fully in either and for many people here there is no benefit of being a member.
     
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  18. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Yo
    u did not answer the key question - yes, the UK has grumbled about the EU since the day we joined, driven by the Murdoch Press.
    BUT no one has given good solid reasons to leave; it is all about 'sovereignty' and 'make our own laws' and 'identity' - nothing substantial all wishy-washy
     
  19. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    Were we even given a vote when we joined?
     
  20. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Were we given a vote when we joined NATO, the UN, UNESCO, etc., etc.,
    We had a vote to join the Common Market in 1973(?) - passed by 2/3rd to 1/3rd
     
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