BREXIT-DOA

[Estro Felino]

What an unbiased and neutral view

Now would you care to explain what this baloney means...
"Souverainists are for undoing the European Union to recreate a new trade community where countries keep their economic sovereignty."

The fact you ignore Marine Le Pen's agenda demonstrates how much you British care what happens across the English Channel.

 

[Estro Felino]

And baloney is not nice

 

[Altfish]

The fact you ignore Marine Le Pen's agenda demonstrates how much you British care what happens across the English Channel.

Ignore my question and change the subject - you are learning the Alt-Right tricks well.

 

[Estro Felino]

Ignore my question and change the subject - you are learning the Alt-Right tricks well.

Ok....answer me. What does M Le Pen want to do?

 

[Altfish]

Ok....answer me. What does M Le Pen want yo do?

She doesn't want me to do anything apart from vote for her equivalent in UK

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I'm thinking we will leave with a deal,no deal is as bad for the EU as it is for us

I too think that in the end, rationality will prevail. Even with mr Boris.
However, I'ld have to disagree that no-deal would be "just as bad" for the EU as for the UK.
It would be bad for the EU for sure. It would be much much worse for the UK.

As it stands already, the UK is torn apart / divided very deeply over the entire thing. Then there's also scotland and ireland. A no-deal would be like pouring oil on an already raging fire. The situation would be very very fragile and very very explosive. The "U" in "UK" would be severely at risk.

While the EU would only have an economic setback primarily. Which would hurt much as well, off course.

,this deal should have been done ages ago,it's embarrassing that it's taken a Buffon like Boris threatening no deal to get it

I'm afraid Boris is going to have to bow to the EU in the end. He'll try to spin it, Trump style, making it look as if he is the hero. But it will mostly be happening on EU terms.

On the EU side of things, there are only 3 options on the table:
- no-deal
- May's deal
- The deal that the EU originally proposed, which is essentially the same as May's deal but with the backstop only limited to Northern Ireland, which is something May found unnacceptable. Boris seems to be moving towards that deal.

I think we can safely rule out May's deal. It's been rejected 3 times and Boris doesn't want anything to do with it. So it's either option 1 or 3.


I expect it will be 3, and the UK is just going to have to deal with a few years of having a hard border in the Irish sea, until new EU/UK trade agreements are negotiated and final border solutions implemented.

,for me though there is no way back.

You're probably correct. Even if they would want to, the relationship is "broken". Maybe we will meet again in a couple of decades.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I've never considered the EU as an enemy,I only considered us not being European,we've never really been fully in and to a many people there is no direct benefit for not being quite a full part of it.

I have always wondered why the UK wasn't in some kind of "special" membership the likes of Norway or whatever. It would have made a lot more sense.

For as long as I remember, the UK has always been kind of the "odd kid in the class". Present, but not really.

It would have made a lot more sense. And then this mess would have been unecessary.

O well. Lessons for the future I guess.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

So, The Backstop is an abstract concept that everyone assumes somebody else will make a concrete reality, without knowing who or why or when?

Sounds like Brexit itself.
Tom

Not exactly 'abstract'.
It keeps the entire UK in a customs union, with all the rules that comes with that.
UK doesn't like that, because one of those rules is that they can't negotiate trade agreements with for example the US by themselves.

The fact of the matter is that I don't think this can be solved at all.
No matter how you turn it, if the UK is COMPLETELY out of everything EU, then the new EU border will with the UK will be the very border that can't be a border according to Good Friday agreements.

The UK doesn't want that people can freely move from the EU to the UK.
The EU doesn't want that people can freely move from outside of the EU into the EU.
So no matter what, there has to be a hard border if the divorce is implemented in full. Which is in violation with Good Friday treaty.


It's amazing that none of the Leavers realised this during their campaign. Or they did realise it and simply didn't care.

Boris doesn't seem to care anyway.... Seeing how willing he is to leave without a deal.

 

[Notanumber]

For as long as I remember, the UK has always been kind of the "odd kid in the class". Present, but not really.

Only allowed to attend because they have loads of money to pay for the poor kids and exorbitant lifestyles of the staff members.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Only allowed to attend because they have loads of money to pay for the poor kids and exorbitant lifestyles of the staff members.

Don't lie.

 

[Notanumber]

Don't lie.

As far has the EU is concerned the UK is their cash cow.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

As far has the EU is concerned the UK is their cash cow.

More lies.

 

[England my lionheart]

But 'speed' was never available to us or the EU. We were sold promises that could not be delivered. Trade deals are not easy - as was said by Project Fear - but we were told not to worry, it is easy.

Banks, businesses hate uncertainty, but as soon as we voted Leave, that's what we got and continue to have.

Because instead of accepting the vote quit instead of carrying out what he instigated,this alone showed how out of touch our politicians are with reality,he,like the rest of the eton boys are pretty impotent

I'm an outsider, I can barely keep up with the idiocy in my own country.
So, please explain what is meant by "the backstop".
I don't get it.
Tom

Basically what altfish said,,it is a tough one to settle.

 

[Altfish]

Because instead of accepting the vote quit instead of carrying out what he instigated,this alone showed how out of touch our politicians are with reality,he,like the rest of the eton boys are pretty impotent


Basically what altfish said,,it is a tough one to settle.

The big problem is, the electorate were sold something that is impossible to deliver.

 

[England my lionheart]

I too think that in the end, rationality will prevail. Even with mr Boris.
However, I'ld have to disagree that no-deal would be "just as bad" for the EU as for the UK.
It would be bad for the EU for sure. It would be much much worse for the UK.

As it stands already, the UK is torn apart / divided very deeply over the entire thing. Then there's also scotland and ireland. A no-deal would be like pouring oil on an already raging fire. The situation would be very very fragile and very very explosive. The "U" in "UK" would be severely at risk.

While the EU would only have an economic setback primarily. Which would hurt much as well, off course.



I'm afraid Boris is going to have to bow to the EU in the end. He'll try to spin it, Trump style, making it look as if he is the hero. But it will mostly be happening on EU terms.

On the EU side of things, there are only 3 options on the table:
- no-deal
- May's deal
- The deal that the EU originally proposed, which is essentially the same as May's deal but with the backstop only limited to Northern Ireland, which is something May found unnacceptable. Boris seems to be moving towards that deal.

I think we can safely rule out May's deal. It's been rejected 3 times and Boris doesn't want anything to do with it. So it's either option 1 or 3.


I expect it will be 3, and the UK is just going to have to deal with a few years of having a hard border in the Irish sea, until new EU/UK trade agreements are negotiated and final border solutions implemented.



You're probably correct. Even if they would want to, the relationship is "broken". Maybe we will meet again in a couple of decades.

Agreed,the relationship is broken beyond repair,I also believe that the EU was already broken,it's a leaking ship kept afloat by 5 countries,4 once we leave,2 that can afford it at least for a while.

 

[England my lionheart]

The big problem is, the electorate were sold something that is impossible to deliver.

The electorate were promised a vote,they got it,leave or remain and they chose leave,there has always been a way out if it was done properly.

 

[England my lionheart]

I have always wondered why the UK wasn't in some kind of "special" membership the likes of Norway or whatever. It would have made a lot more sense.

For as long as I remember, the UK has always been kind of the "odd kid in the class". Present, but not really.

It would have made a lot more sense. And then this mess would have been unecessary.

O well. Lessons for the future I guess.

Agree on this.

 

[Altfish]

The electorate were promised a vote,they got it,leave or remain and they chose leave,there has always been a way out if it was done properly.

But to gain Leave voters, Farage, Johnson and the rest promised deals, Norway style, Canada Style, The easiest deal ever, the EU needs us more than we need them... etc., etc., etc.,
Now, it is "We need a clean break" - i.e. that easy deal, well we lied.

My one hope is that when reality sinks in and Nissan closes and Honda goes, and the City reduces in size, people will be really mad with the people who sold them this dream.
BUT as is already happening, the blame game is starting ... it is not the Leavers fault, it is those quisling Remainers, who are wrecking our easy deals.
No matter that Remainers said this would happen. - it's still their fault.

What a sad place our politics is in.

 

[LuisDantas]

After watching late into the night all of the shenanigans in the house of commons, I am of the definite opinion that Brexit is now a dead political reform. I consider this failure one of the greatest breaches of trust the British public has incurred in recent time, only outclassed by Mr. Blair´s announcement to join the American lead invasion of Iraq. I would suggest that for the past 30 years, the common law of the United Kingdom has slowly eroded in favour of the Napoleonic Code among other political norms. When Brexit is finally demolished, you might as well raise the French and German Flag over Westminster, because the laws of Britain will all be in violation of some sort of human rights law mandated from the French Courts either in Strasbourg or Luxembourg City! The demise of Brexit is like a boxer being punched in the stomach with all his air being knocked out of him.

Uh, I don't think so.

Brexit was sold under, to put it mildly, false pretenses. The 2016 referendum was lacking badly needed detail and is therefore incomplete. Were it not explicitly non-binding, it would be fully null and void as well (and illegal).

Last but not least, the very idea of Brexit is bleeding the UK both politically as well as economically.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The electorate were promised a vote,they got it,leave or remain and they chose leave,there has always been a way out if it was done properly.

He is saying that they were lied to concerning what "leave" really meant.
And they were.

They voted "leave" on extremely bad intel. Worse: deliberatly bad intel.