Border Shutdown or Build a Wall?

[sun rise]

Citation needed please.

Is Illegal Immigration Linked to More or Less Crime? - FactCheck.org

Immigration and Crime - Oxford Research Encyclopedia of Criminology

Or just search the internet with this query: https://www.google.com/search?q=crime+rates+citizens+vs+illegal+immigrants+usa

This does not mean open borders to anyone who wants to enter. But it means that we should have a rational discussion of how to handle a flood of people in a decent, caring but careful way to as much as possible screen out those who are undesirable or don't have a valid reason for trying to enter the US.

 

[Lyndon]

Citation needed please.

Illegal Immigration Does Not Increase Violent Crime, 4 Studies Show

 

[Lyndon]

Funny how the whole right wing agenda is based on lies, big lies!!

 

[Salvador]

what a stupid idea, all those American tourists stuck in mexico because the border was shut down, only an imbicile would propose that!!

..."Here are just a few statistics on the human toll of illegal immigration. According to a 2011 government report, the arrests attached to the criminal alien population included an estimated 25,000 people for homicide, 42,000 for robbery, nearly 70,000 for sex offenses, and nearly 15,000 for kidnapping. In Texas alone, within the last seven years, more than a quarter million criminal aliens have been arrested and charged with over 600,000 criminal offenses. You don’t hear that."

**Edited**

"Let’s take homicide as an example. The GAO estimates “criminal aliens” were arrested, convicted and incarcerated for 25,064 homicides. If non-citizens committed them over seven years, the annual rate would be 14.2 per 100,000 non-citizens. If illegal aliens committed them over four years, the annual rate would be 58.0 per 100,000 illegal aliens. Either way you compute, those are high rates.

By comparison, the FBI reports the murder rates for the entire U.S. from 2003 through 2009 varied from 5.0 to 5.8 per 100,000 inhabitants for an average rate of 5.5. To be clear, 5.5 is much lower than either 14.2 or 58.0.

Or look at the total number of homicides in those years. Per the FBI, there were 67,642 murders in the U.S. from 2005 through 2008, and 115,717 from 2003 through 2009. Per the GAO, criminal aliens committed 25,064 of them. That means they committed 22% to 37% of all murders in the U.S., while being only 3.52% to 8.25% of the population."

So then, this means illegal aliens are around 5 times more likely to be a murderer than somebody who is not an illegal immigrant.

Read more: Illegal Aliens Murder at a Much Higher Rate Than US Citizens Do
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

 

[Nous]

Many violent Illegal immigrants from Mexico with violent criminal records have seriously harmed or killed many American citizens,. Our nation needs an effective border security barrier in order to reduce these incidents of violent illegal immigrants trespassing across the U.S.-Mexico border and then harming or killing American citizens. If there's no effective border security barrier to keep out violent criminals from Mexico, then the POTUS has no choice but to close down the Mexico-U.S. border with military force.

So then, would you prefer an effective border security barrier or a border shut down with military force?
Of course, allowing the entry of violent criminals into our nation from Mexico by failing to seal off our nation's southern border is not an option.

I didn't vote because the question presents a false dilemma. Trump does not have the authority to close ports of entry, for political purposes, to legal US residents or non-residents who have legal visas. And he has already made clear that his threat to "close the border" would be for political purposes (because Congress will not give him a certain amount of money), not for national security reasons. Trump's threat to "close the border" is bluster that issues from his ignorance (like 99℅ of everything else he says).

 

[Lyndon]

..."Here are just a few statistics on the human toll of illegal immigration. According to a 2011 government report, the arrests attached to the criminal alien population included an estimated 25,000 people for homicide, 42,000 for robbery, nearly 70,000 for sex offenses, and nearly 15,000 for kidnapping. In Texas alone, within the last seven years, more than a quarter million criminal aliens have been arrested and charged with over 600,000 criminal offenses. You don’t hear that."

There's an estimated 10 million illegal immigrants, so then according to these statistics, one out of 4,000 illegal immigrants are murderers. This compares to an estimated 1 out of 22,500 persons overall in America who are convicted murderers. Reference: What Percentage of Americans Are Murderers? | Extrano's Alley

So then, illegal immigrants are more than 5 times as likely to be a murderer than is a legal immigrant or citizen.

those are bogus lie studies, read the links we posted, you are getting right wing propaganda mixed up with facts!!

 

[Watchmen]

Studies have shown the most violent Americans are citizens, immigrants commit less crimes and are less violent

Which is no reason to let the violent immigrants in.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'd prefer a border shutdown since it would be less harmful to the environment and non-human animals.

 

[Salvador]

those are bogus lie studies, read the links we posted, you are getting right wing propaganda mixed up with facts!!

Congressman Steve King (R-IA) estimates that illegal alien drunk drivers kill 13 Americans every day — that’s a death toll of 4,745 per year.


Illegal Alien Crime and Violence by the Numbers: We’re All Victims

This would mean illegal aliens account for nearly 50 percent of alcohol related traffic fatalities each year in the U.S,; illegal aliens are around 3 to 4 percent of the overall population. This means that some illegal alien is at least 12 times more likely to kill somebody in a car crash from driving while drunk than is a legal immigrant or citizen.

 

[Salvador]

I didn't vote because the question presents a false dilemma. Trump does not have the authority to close ports of entry, for political purposes, to legal US residents or non-residents who have legal visas. And he has already made clear that his threat to "close the border" would be for political purposes (because Congress will not give him a certain amount of money), not for national security reasons. Trump's threat to "close the border" is bluster that issues from his ignorance (like 99℅ of everything else he says).

If Trump were to seal off the U.S.-Mexico border, he wouldn’t be the first president to do so. Nixon did shut down portions of the border during Operation Intercept in order to keep drugs from entering the U.S. President Reagan briefly shut down the border when a DEA agent went missing. So then, there is historic precedent for Trump to do the same, especially for national security reasons. He doesn’t even need any Congressional approval.

I doubt you would want the border to be closed in such a dramatic fashion; so then, I urge you to please write your Congressional representatives for getting an effective border security barrier approved.

 

[Salvador]

"Let’s take homicide as an example. The GAO estimates “criminal aliens” were arrested, convicted and incarcerated for 25,064 homicides. If non-citizens committed them over seven years, the annual rate would be 14.2 per 100,000 non-citizens. If illegal aliens committed them over four years, the annual rate would be 58.0 per 100,000 illegal aliens. Either way you compute, those are high rates.

By comparison, the FBI reports the murder rates for the entire U.S. from 2003 through 2009 varied from 5.0 to 5.8 per 100,000 inhabitants for an average rate of 5.5. To be clear, 5.5 is much lower than either 14.2 or 58.0.

Or look at the total number of homicides in those years. Per the FBI, there were 67,642 murders in the U.S. from 2005 through 2008, and 115,717 from 2003 through 2009. Per the GAO, criminal aliens committed 25,064 of them. That means they committed 22% to 37% of all murders in the U.S., while being only 3.52% to 8.25% of the population."

These statistics show illegal aliens are somewhere around five times more likely to be a murderer than somebody who isn't an illegal immigrant.

Read more: Illegal Aliens Murder at a Much Higher Rate Than US Citizens Do
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook


Illegal Aliens Murder at a Much Higher Rate Than US Citizens Do

 

[Lyndon]

rubbish, russian trolls.

 

[Salvador]

those are bogus lie studies, read the links we posted, you are getting right wing propaganda mixed up with facts!!

These crime statistics are from the Government Accountability Office and Federal Bureau of Investigations:

The GAO estimates “criminal aliens” were arrested, convicted and incarcerated for 25,064 homicides.

Reference: https://www.gao.gov/assets/320/316959.pdf

If non-citizens committed them over seven years, the annual rate would be 14.2 per 100,000 non-citizens. If illegal aliens committed them over four years, the annual rate would be 58.0 per 100,000 illegal aliens. Either way you compute, those are high rates.

By comparison, the FBI reports the murder rates for the entire U.S. from 2003 through 2009 varied from 5.0 to 5.8 per 100,000 inhabitants for an average rate of 5.5. To be clear, 5.5 is much lower than either 14.2 or 58.0.

Or look at the total number of homicides in those years. Per the FBI, there were 67,642 murders in the U.S. from 2005 through 2008, and 115,717 from 2003 through 2009.

Reference: Table 1

Per the GAO, criminal aliens committed 25,064 of them.

https://www.gao.gov/assets/320/316959.pdf

That means they committed 22% to 37% of all murders in the U.S., while being only 3.52% to 8.25% of the population."

Read more: Illegal Aliens Murder at a Much Higher Rate Than US Citizens Do
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

 

[Salvador]

rubbish, russian trolls.

https://www.gao.gov/assets/320/316959.pdf

 

[Lyndon]

your sources are contradicted by more reliable sources, you never read our links, did you, better off being ignorant than knowing the truth.

 

[Salvador]

your sources are contradicted by more reliable sources, you never read our links, did you, better off being ignorant than knowing the truth.

My sources are from the Government Accountability Office (GAO) and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).

Do you not trust these sources?

Where are your sources from?

Why do you think your sources are more reliable than my sources?

 

[Lyndon]

you haven't posted any relevant passages, we hardly have time to read through a hundred page document. you seem very confused about what the numbers actually mean and over what period of time they relate to

 

[Lyndon]

Illegal Immigration Does Not Increase Violent Crime, 4 Studies Show

 

[Salvador]

you haven't posted any relevant passages, we hardly have time to read through a hundred page document. you seem very confused about what the numbers actually mean and over what period of time they relate to

https://www.gao.gov/assets/320/316959.pdf page 27 confirms 25,064 arrests of illegal aliens who were arrested for homicide from 2003 to 2009.

Table 1 confirms the FBI reports of 115,717 homicides from 2003 to 2009.

Simple math: 25,064/115,717 equals 21.66 percent. Illegal aliens are 3 to 4 percent of the overall population, yet they've committed around 21.66 percent of all homicides. Therefore, they are at least 5 times more likely to be a murderer than somebody who is not an illegal alien.

Numbers don't lie!

Right?

 

[Lyndon]

your figures keep changing every time you post