Big Trouble in China

[Notanumber]

Unless you read decent newspapers ...
France braces for gilets jaunes anniversary marches
Black-clad youths clash with police as gilets jaunes mark anniversary
Clashes break out in Paris as 'yellow vest' activists mark year of protests

Yes, it was totally hushed up ... err but it wasn't.

The UK and EU’s propaganda machine, BBC TV, are eerily quiet about one but not the other.

I don’t have to buy a newspaper but I have to pay for the BBC so they should make sure they are worth it.

 

[Polymath257]

I thought the bill was withdrawn last month. On 10-23-2019... So why are protests continuing?

Because they now want an investigation into police harassment and to be guaranteed representative democracy.

 

[dybmh]

@Landon Caeli ,

Here's what started all of it...

2019 Hong Kong extradition bill - Wikipedia

The bill was proposed by the Hong Kong government in February 2019 to establish a mechanism for transfers of fugitives not only for Taiwan, but also for Mainland China and Macau, which are currently excluded in the existing laws....

The introduction of the bill caused widespread criticism domestically and abroad from the legal profession, journalist organisations, business groups, and foreign governments fearing the erosion of Hong Kong's legal system and its built-in safeguards, as well as damage to Hong Kong's business climate. Largely, this fear is attributed to China's newfound ability through this bill to arrest voices of political dissent in Hong Kong.

So China proposed a bill which would allow snatch and grab of its critics in HK. This is a change. This is what started the protests.

In Aug 2019, the protests turned violent. The following wikipedia article is nice because the footnotes provide a list of news articles discussing the HK protest story in chronological order.

Causes of the 2019 Hong Kong protests - Wikipedia

But, in order to fully understand this current situation, it's good to look at the HK / mainland china dynamic.

Hong Kong–Mainland China conflict - Wikipedia

Relations between people in Hong Kong and mainland China have been relatively tense since the early 2000s. Various factors have contributed, including different interpretations of the "One country, two systems" principle; policies of the Hong Kong and central governments to encourage mainland visitors to Hong Kong; and the changing economic environment.

These tensions are expressed as hostility toward mainlanders by radical political actors and ordinary citizens alike. More broadly, there exists resentment toward mainland-Hong Kong convergence or assimilation, and toward perceived interference from mainland China in Hong Kong's internal affairs.

"One country, two systems" ... the people of Hong Kong tasted freedom. And now, everything else is unacceptable. What we are seeing is people power. People are putting themselves in harms way in order to make a difference for themselves, for their family, and for their neighbors.

The 2019 extradition bill was, in the view of many the last straw. in 2015, the owners and operators of a political bookstore were disappeared. ( source ). What makes this story important is that it shows that at that time, China was not legally authorized to detain people that were not on the Mainland. There were different laws for HK. The Chinese gov't needed to justify the detainment by showing that the individuals were standing on Chinese soil, not Hong Kong. That's what makes the extradition bill so pivotal in this issue.

There are other issues as well. A lot of people talk about this conflict as a call for democracy. But at its core, I think it's less about representation in gov't and more about freedom of speech and the right to protest.

 

[Cooky]

This is on the UK’s doorstep but we hear very little about it whereas Hong Kong is always on TV.

Violence flares as yellow vests mark one year

Interesting. Fortunately, I don't watch television news.

 

[BSM1]

Best thing to do is steer back on topic.
Things will be harsh indeed if the PRC big dogs get involved.

If I'm not mistaken, I think I heard yesterday that the PRC already has forces intermingled with the HK troops.

 

[Martin]

This is on the UK’s doorstep but we hear very little about it whereas Hong Kong is always on TV.

Violence flares as yellow vests mark one year

I assume that's because Hong Kong used to be a British colony.

 

[Altfish]

The UK and EU’s propaganda machine, BBC TV, are eerily quiet about one but not the other.

I don’t have to buy a newspaper but I have to pay for the BBC so they should make sure they are worth it.

Like I've already told you the BBC has lurched to the right and follows the Sun, Telegraph, Times and Mail

 

[leov]

I thought the bill was withdrawn last month. On 10-23-2019... So why are protests continuing?

i think they are of the sane origin as Yellow vests movement - Wikipedia
and Maidan.

 

[ChristineM]

This is on the UK’s doorstep but we hear very little about it whereas Hong Kong is always on TV.

Violence flares as yellow vests mark one year

Oh, so the BBC is not the biggest multimedia news provider in the UK. Wow, i never knew that.

But they are good at melodrama.

I live in france, in the last nine months i have travelled to 5 major cities including regional capitals and not seen one yellow vest protest. So dont panic.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

China is a dictatorship and is doing what dictators always do - suppress dissent.

Quite so, and the protesters in Hong Kong want the right to dissent, and to have a say in how they are governed. Beijing has never seen any reason why ordinary people should want such things, when they've got the Communist Party to make sure everything is just peachy.

 

[Martin]

Oh, so the BBC is not the biggest multimedia news provider in the UK. Wow, i never knew that.

But they are good at melodrama.

I live in france, in the last nine months i have travelled to 5 major cities including regional capitals and not seen one yellow vest protest. So dont panic.

Are the Yellow Vests going to invade Britain?

 

[Altfish]

Are the Yellow Vests going to invade Britain?

Only on building sites.

 

[Martin]

Quite so, and the protesters in Hong Kong want the right to dissent, and to have a say in how they are governed. Beijing has never seen any reason why ordinary people should want such things, when they've got the Communist Party to make sure everything is just peachy.

As I understand it, HKs judiciary and laws are now effectively under PRC control, which doesn't bode well for the future.

 

[Wu Wei]

I'm expecting a severe crackdown.
But for the moment, it appears that leaders
are watching, planning, & hoping it'll fizzle out.

The talk amongst the mainland folks I know is that the PRC is trying to kill Hong Kong as a business hub, and so far, Hong Kong is doing a good job of that on thier own with the protests. The PRC wants to move the business to Shenzhen. Since the PRC can't physically force them to move (They are not Chinese businesses) they are just allowing the protest to make it hard to do business thereby getting the business to move to, the ever so free of protests, Shenzen on the mainland. As far a crackdown goes, not likely at this point, but not out of the question if Hong Kong gets way out of control. But so far it looks like they will let the local police handle it so they don't have a repeat of Tiananmen, which would do damage to the global economy they are trying to grow in an attempt to displace the USA.

As to what they want, it appears they (mostly students) want a democratic government that is under the PRC. Basically they want the right to vote for their own politicians and not just get those appointed by Beijing, like the rest of China. Interesting to note, they did not really have that voting right under British rule either.

 

[Wu Wei]

Also note: Chinese state TV (CCTV) was at one time blaming the US for this and claiming the USA was backing, and inciting the protests. Not sure if they are still pushing this line.

 

[Notanumber]

I assume that's because Hong Kong used to be a British colony.

The British have been demonised for having colonies but I am guessing that the Hong Kong people would welcome us back with open arms.

France is part of the EU that the British voted to leave over three years ago.

 

[Notanumber]

Like I've already told you the BBC has lurched to the right and follows the Sun, Telegraph, Times and Mail

When did you become the self-appointed expert?

 

[Notanumber]

Oh, so the BBC is not the biggest multimedia news provider in the UK. Wow, i never knew that.

But they are good at melodrama.

I live in france, in the last nine months i have travelled to 5 major cities including regional capitals and not seen one yellow vest protest. So dont panic.

Perhaps you were wearing the same blinkers that you wear on here.

 

[Notanumber]

Are the Yellow Vests going to invade Britain?

France’s Yellow Vest fury spreads to Britain as 1000s bring chaos to streets today

 

[Altfish]

When did you become the self-appointed expert?

It's called observation.