Biblical Slavery - How Could A Loving God Condone It?

[Maximilian]

So what has this to do with the bible?
There is no end of people who employ the bible to their own ends.
That's how Jesus was crucified, for example.
Judging the bible by those who breach its principles is intellectual
dishonesty.

Please elaborate: How were Leopold's evils representative of Christ Jesus' beneficent, compassionate, humanitarian, magnanimous, charitable, self-sacrificing teachings?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

The trade in African slaves is still alive and well in many Islamic countries and the Quran legitimizes the sexual slavery of non-Muslims.

Meanwhile In whataboutism land.

I love when some Caucasians use this "blame Africans as well" argument:

"In How Europe Underdeveloped Africa, Walter Rodney mentions how the white author of a book on the slave trade admitted that he was encouraged by other scholars to blame the slave trade solely on the Africans. This narrative helps to lessen European guilt by making Africans seem just as or even more guilty of being involved in the slave trade. This piece is not an attempt to ignore the African role in the slave trade or to absolve those that were involved, but to provide a more complete picture of the African involvement in slave trade. In the first place, the Portuguese initiated what eventually became the Trans-Atlantic slave trade mainly through slave raids along the coasts of Africa. The first of these raids came in 1444 and was led by Lançarote de Freitas. The problem with raiding for slaves was that it was extremely dangerous. For instance, the slave trader Nuno Tristão was killed during an ambush. Slave raiding proved to be an extremely dangerous way to obtain slaves, but buying slaves was much safer and took less effort on the part of the Europeans. Therefore, the first phase of the slave trade began not with a trade, but with a series of raids. This point is especially important because although the slave trade was on some levels based on a partnership between European buyers and African traders, the slave trade did not begin as such."

Did We Sell Each Other Into Slavery: Misconceptions About the African Involvement in the Slave Trade | HuffPost

BTW if you're going to say the Qur'an legitimizes sexual slavery of non-Muslims better back that up with evidence

 

[Epic Beard Man]

@Stanyon

The following is to help you and others that have no academic knowledge on the Quranic language nor the context of its verses so this is a simple article to help you:

The is a famous verse many use to justify their arguments against the Qur'an and sexual slavery:

“And successful are the believers who guard their chastity … except from their wives or those that their right hands possess.”

Surah 23:1-6

"The reference is about sexual relations, which are forbidden with any woman unless she is a spouse or ‘those their right hands possess’. To be clear, this means a concubine, bondmaid or a slave, but intercourse has to be consensual. Rape is forbidden as it is violent, and Islamic texts legislated for the proper and honourable treatment of slaves.

Even consensual sexual relations with a slave were not permissible if it caused harm and abuse elsewhere (e.g. to a wife) as all parties involved would be affected. Furthermore this is not an entitlement. Concubinage and interpersonal relations with various bondmaids/slaves was already occurring at the time the Quran came about and subsequent passages list restrictions as a starting point to help to bring about the end of slavery. In any case, marriage was encouraged (Chapter 24:32) with slaves.

Conveniently this is something the extremists ignore, and this example further enforces the point that religious illiteracy is a root cause of extremism. Islamophobic extremists as well as Islamist extremists (like Isis) who promote and validate sexual violence through unspecific passages in the Quran - or without context - do so to justify their own violent mindsets.

Also, references in Islamic texts about slavery don’t apply any longer for a modern age given that slavery has been officially banned internationally since 1948. There is widespread consensus across all nations on this, including Muslims ones. There’s no desire among ordinary Muslims to drag humanity backwards into slavery, especially when there was a clear agenda in key Islamic texts to eventually eradicate it.

In fact, slavery was never endorsed by Islamic texts; rather it was something inherited from pre-Islamic cultures (pre-600s) that needed to be voluntarily and gradually weeded out of society through manumission, which was highly encouraged (Chapters 24:32-33 & 16:71). Islamic texts list a plethora of avenues to free slaves, as it was seen as a highly virtuous act. It’s difficult to find any references on how to make slaves out of people; rather the focus is always on ending slavery."

The truth about Muslims and sex slaves

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Wow, your white Christian friends are able to trace their lineage back to ancestors who were members of pro slavery churches ?

I'm sure non-immigrant Europeans can trace their lineage back and I'm sure many of their forefathers are linked either directly to slavery or directly linked to the promotion of the institution of white supremacist oppression.

The answer to your question is simple. Those who supported slavery refused to recognize the humanity of the slaves.Using false markers like non technological cultures, uneducated by western ideaś, physically different, they could justify to themselves that the slaves were´not fully human.

This I know.

A Biblically false position. This warped concept allowed them to create heinous sins

The human heart, not tempered by God falls to the rule of the animals, the strong conquer and do what they choose with the weak.

Repeated over and over again across the world

This I know.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Justifying something using scripture is not the same thing
as the intent of scripture. You deliberately confuse the two.

Am I?

"Reverends, Fathers and Dear Compatriots:

The task that is given to fulfill is very delicate and requires much tact. You will go certainly to evangelize, but your evangelization must inspire above all Belgium interests. Your principal objective in our mission in the Congo is never to teach the n*****s to know God, this they know already. They speak and submit to a Mungu, one Nzambi, one Nzakomba, and what else I don’t know.

They know that to kill, to sleep with someone else’s wife, to lie and to insult is bad. Have courage to admit it; you are not going to teach them what they know already. Your essential role is to facilitate the task of administrators and industrials, which means you will go to interpret the gospel in the way it will be the best to protect your interests in that part of the world."

Letter From King Leopold II to Colonial Missionaries Heading to Africa

 

[Epic Beard Man]

So what has this to do with the bible?

Because scripture was used to employ oppression and suffering. The Bible was very much a part in the construction of various societies and used to implement European interests.

There is no end of people who employ the bible to their own ends.

Agreed, but there is no end of people who also try and reinterpret what verses "truly" meant, thus is why we call it the "No True Scotsman."

That's how Jesus was crucified, for example.
Judging the bible by those who breach its principles is intellectual
dishonesty.

Funny how you say this when there are countless pastors, priest, and even some rabbis that use what's going on the middle east and places like Palestine and use the Qur'an to demonize an entire faith of people. Using your words and replacing the word bible:

"Judging the [Qur'an] by those who breach its principles is intellectual dishonesty."

Christians do this everyday online and offline when it comes to inter-religious topics.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Well, when you consider that Leopold was a devout Catholic, not Christian, his evils make much more sense.

I make no distinction between a Catholic and a Christian considering the main belief is that they both believe in the divinity of Jesus, son of Mary.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well, when you consider that Leopold was a devout Catholic, not Christian, his evils make much more sense.

News flash, Catholics are Christians, many of them devout.

You do realize that others could just as easily belittle the sect that you belong to. Its actions make it very close to being a cult.

 

[PruePhillip]

I make no distinction between a Catholic and a Christian considering the main belief is that they both believe in the divinity of Jesus, son of Mary.

Pretty lame. That's like saying you make no distinction between Capitalism
and Communism as both ultimately claim concern for the common man.

Jesus was not a Catholic. Jesus repudiated the power, glory, wealth, paganism,
legalisms, return-to-the-law, cruelty and adding to the bible that the Roman Catholic
immersed itself in.

 

[PruePhillip]

Am I?

"Reverends, Fathers and Dear Compatriots:

The task that is given to fulfill is very delicate and requires much tact. You will go certainly to evangelize, but your evangelization must inspire above all Belgium interests. Your principal objective in our mission in the Congo is never to teach the n*****s to know God, this they know already. They speak and submit to a Mungu, one Nzambi, one Nzakomba, and what else I don’t know.

They know that to kill, to sleep with someone else’s wife, to lie and to insult is bad. Have courage to admit it; you are not going to teach them what they know already. Your essential role is to facilitate the task of administrators and industrials, which means you will go to interpret the gospel in the way it will be the best to protect your interests in that part of the world."

Letter From King Leopold II to Colonial Missionaries Heading to Africa

And that's not all.
Ever read "Green Power, Black Death" ?
quote "Reveals a dark secret of the ideological environmental movement.
The movement imposes the views of mostly wealthy, comfortable Americans
and Europeans on mostly poor, desperate Africans, Asians and Latin Americans.
It violates these people's most basic human rights, denying them economic
opportunities, the chance for better lives, the right to rid their countries of
diseases that were vanquished long ago in Europe and the United States."

Read about how Western groups like Greenpeace supported African govts
in removing peoples from their ancient lands - turning these lands into parks
for wealthy tourists and delegating the n***** to shanty towns and alcoholism.
The death toll from banning things like DDT is quite revelatory.

Are you a righteously indignant man? Don't support green movements, ever.

 

[sooda]

So when was the book of Daniel written?
You would say sometime in the First Century AD, no?
Had to have been because Daniel wrote of Rome, the
nation that invaded Israel, destroyed the temple and
'cut off' the Messiah.
Yet the book of Daniel purposed to be from the time of
the Babylonian exile. After this exile, and the rebuilding
of the temple, there were no more books added to the
Jewish bible.
The book of Maccabees, from the Greek era, is not a
part of that bible, nor ours. It is called "Apocrypha", not
of the bible. Yet Daniel isn't Apocrypha.

The book of Daniel was written in 165 BC during the Maccabean revolt. I said NOTHING about the Book of the Maccabees.

The Maccabean Revolt was a Jewish rebellion, lasting from 167 to 160 BCE, led by the Maccabees against the Seleucid Empire and the Hellenistic influence on Jewish life.

Daniel

This is an excellent source for Daniel in Early Jewish writings. Daniel was NEVER in Babylon.

The Babylonian exile formally ended in 538 BC, when the Persian conqueror of Babylonia, Cyrus the Great, gave the Jews permission to return to Palestine.

 

[sooda]

Pretty lame. That's like saying you make no distinction between Capitalism
and Communism as both ultimately claim concern for the common man.

Jesus was not a Catholic. Jesus repudiated the power, glory, wealth, paganism,
legalisms, return-to-the-law, cruelty and adding to the bible that the Roman Catholic
immersed itself in.

Jesus lived and died an observant Jew.

 

[dybmh]

Because they can't both be right and ISIS are definitely much more devoted to Quranic teachings than other Islamic sects.

You may be right, but I think the verses you are referring to are Hadith not Quranic.

 

[sooda]

You may be right, but I think the verses you are referring to are Hadith not Quranic.

ISIS like Boko Haram is completely ignorant about Islam. Don't pay any attention to these keyboard experts.

 

[sooda]

Antiochus Epiphanes was a Greek king of the Seleucid Empire who reigned over Syria from 175 BC until 164 BC.

That's who Daniel is talking about.. when he writes abomination of desolation.

Rome controlled Judea from 63 BC to 313 AD.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Pretty lame. That's like saying you make no distinction between Capitalism
and Communism as both ultimately claim concern for the common man.

I'm referring to their main belief but ok

 

[sooda]

News flash, Catholics are Christians, many of them devout.

You do realize that others could just as easily belittle the sect that you belong to. Its actions make it very close to being a cult.

JW? I had to stop them from trespassing on my property..

 

[Skreeper]

Actually, contemporary research shows that individuals with ASD have cognitive processing styles which hamper human spirituality while the Neurotypical have all inherited a variety of biological predispositions for spirituality. Disqus - Square Pegs, Round Holes


Have you ever been assessed for ASD? ([Self-Test] Autism Spectrum Disorder Symptoms in Adults)

Is this the Christian equivalent of calling someone autistic?

 

[PruePhillip]

Jesus lived and died an observant Jew.

True but not true.
Jesus fulfilled all the law (Jewish laws)
But He also gave us the New Testament.
Thus... instead of having a traditional Passover Jesus spoke of HIMSELF
as being the lamb slain. He didn't go into the rituals such as sweeping
and cleaning - for these He considered to be rituals and symbols of what
he himself now represented. So, I don't think he was really an "observant
Jew."

 

[viole]

Kidnapping anyone and then selling them was punishable by death in ancient Israel-

Kidnappers must be put to death, whether they are caught in possession of their victims or have already sold them as slaves. -Exodus 21:16​

In a similar manner, Christianity also condemns slavery-

We know that the law is good when used correctly. For the law was not intended for people who do what is right. It is for people who are lawless and rebellious, who are ungodly and sinful, who consider nothing sacred and defile what is holy, who kill their father or mother or commit other murders.

The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching that comes from the glorious Good News entrusted to me by our blessed God. -1 Timothy 1 :8-10​

Given the reality that slaves were always kidnapped or the children of kidnapping victims, exactly why, then, do Anti-Christians continue to confuse the consensual program of personal debt settlement utilized in ancient Israel with slavery?

Leviticus 25:44

“Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.”

You may buy, and then they will become your property that can be passed from parent to child. Like a car.

So, if the Bible condemns slave traders, then its authors have the same moral stature of those junkies that buy heroin but condemn the dealer. I seriosusly hope you do not take your morality from there.

Now, apart from showing that the Bible is inconsistent, if not just hypocrite and cruel, i am not sure what your point is.

Ciao

- viole