Bible claims/interpretations that don't make sense

[Jayhawker Soule]

Yes, but more people would get sick from pork and shellfish back then, then from eating other livestock.

Source?

Also, I read somewhere a while back that there may have been economic reasons for why the Jewish god thought pork and shellfish were "unclean".

You do realize that reading something somewhere is evidence of very little.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Source?

Do you need a source for that? You have heard of Red Tide and Trichinosis I hope.

You do realize that reading something somewhere is evidence of very little.

That is a valid point. One should be able to support one's claims. I could give you links on the two dangers that I mentioned if needed.

 

[JustWondering]

No, it doesn't. The "days" in Genesis do not have to be 24 hour periods because the word "yohm" (day) can mean a period of undetermined length. In Genesis 2:4 it speaks of all of creation as occurring in a "day". These periods have a beginning and an end but the time in between is not indicated. That leaves plenty of room for science to be correct along with the Bible. The earth is very ancient and so is early creation.

Adam was created on the sixth day along with ALL other land based life (like dinosaurs), the bible also says that Adam lived for 130 years before he had his first son, which happened after he was kicked out of the garden. I suppose you could say man was created last and millions of years passed, which would be more in step with what science tells us. Yet, science tells us man has been around for around at least 100 thousand years, the bible claims 6 thousand.

There was no "magic"...you do understand the difference between "power" and "magic" I assume?
Does science know about every kind of power there is in the universe? Science cannot discount the existence of a power that created the universe. It didn't get here by accident because nothing comes from nothing. The law of cause and effect means the universe had a cause. Science cannot categorically deny that the power that created the universe displayed intelligence. It just wants to deny it.

When you make claims that are not supported by science, facts, and evidence that only leaves magic. The population of the earth all coming from a handful of people and not being horrifically inbreed doesn't make any sense, according to science and facts. Yet you claim, god just made it so we wouldn't be inbred, Magic! It's hard not to come off as a jerk here but seriously, you need to produce more than "god did it!", if you want someone like me to take you seriously. I consider your god to be imaginary. I am not going to give it any special leeway.

Do humans who "create" rely on "magic" Or do they use skill and methodology to accomplish a finished work?
Does an architect in collaboration with a construction company build a skyscraper with "magic"? Do you disbelieve that they can construct such a building using their engineering skills and well considered choice of materials? What is "magic" about that? Perhaps you need to lose "the big magician in the sky" image?

It isn't serving you well.

Of course Humans don't use magic, hence, there are tell tale signs of the manufacturing process after we are done making something. If your god doesn't use magic then there should be telltale signs of the manufacturing process as well, but we're not seeing that. That's the point!

The flood legends all have a very similar scenario. They are found in very different cultures so that rules out coincidence. There is evidence for a global flood but you won't accept it.

What you don't seem to accept is that floods happen all over the world and when people hand down tales later, it is common for them to exaggerate.

Having laid down his law on blood from the time of Noah, humans who break this laws will answer to God, not us.

I think you have a higher opinion of medical science than it deserves. People seem to be slowly waking up to the fact that the practice of medicine these days is all about expensive drugs that often make you sicker than the disease that they are treating you for. There are no cures for the most part but always a continuous supply of pharmaceuticals. Like drugs, blood is a huge money spinner.
Have you ever looked up the cost of a single unit of blood used in a hospital?

"...the total cost of RBC transfusion per patient transfused in the surgical setting of this hospital was US$ 3433. The total cost of a unit of RBC was US$ 1,158 (2007 value), of which, indirect overhead, total transfusion process cost, weighted average acquisition cost and direct overhead cost per unit accounted for 40.6%, 34.0%, 21.5% and 3.9%, respectively. This study shows that the true cost of blood transfusion is much higher than the nominal value currently assigned to each unit of blood."

The True Cost of Red Blood Cell Transfusion in Surgical Patients

Cash cows are seldom slaughtered...no matter how high the risk, they will find excuses to keep making money.

Sounds like you have more of a problem with unregulated predatory capitalism than modern medicine. We really need to remove the medical care for profit system in the US. Funny how a lot of conservatives claim to be Christian but when it comes to helping people (Universal Healthcare) they don't want to do it, making the excuse that it's too expensive (which is demonstrably false). If Canada can do it, couldn't we do it better, since we're supposedly so awesome?

If we do not teach this, then your friends were not well educated. Any wonder they went off the rails....what else did they not understand? I am glad to hear that they returned and hopefully learned the truth about the wine and a lot of other things.

They were thoroughly indoctrinated since childhood, so not surprising they got sucked back into it.

I am amused that some people see believers as slaves to their God or to their religion, but don't you think being dictated to about dates on a calendar with mass participation isn't a form of slavery? Haven't you wandered through a department store or even a supermarket when they have finished with one "celebration date"....then gone straight on to the next one? Who are the slaves? Like sheep lining up to be fleeced.

I don't know how many people I see in the supermarket around Christmas time stressed out because of the expectations of the holiday. If they ask if I have finished my "Christmas shopping" and I tell them I don't celebrate Christmas, the look on their face tells me that they envy me. No one seems to realize that its their choice to keep doing this to line the pockets of greedy commercial interests. Who is laughing all the way to the bank whilst you struggle to pay off last years purchases on your credit card. When is it time to say "enough"!

Again, seems like you have issues with capitalism. As for slavery, having to obey someone or suffer severe consequences, like death, does sound like slavery, now that you mention it.

 

[JustWondering]

Source?

I've seen this brought up by others and read things in articles online before. Made sense to me. Ancient people didn't know about bacteria, disease and parasites like we do today.

Why did the Old Testament Law command against the eating of pork? Last paragraph in the article
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-eating-pork-prohibited-in-Judaism-Christianity-Old-Testament-and-Islam
http://www.oregon.gov/oha/ph/HealthyEnvironments/Recreation/Documents/Shellfish-safety.pdf

You do realize that reading something somewhere is evidence of very little.

Religious restrictions on the consumption of pork - Wikipedia

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Do you need a source for that?

Yes.

That people can get sick from consuming undercooked pork does not mean that "more people would get sick from pork ... back then, than from eating other livestock." Pork was widely consumed in the ANE, so much so that the absence of pig bones at a site is a telling (forgive the pun) cultural marker. The debate about the origins of the Kosher laws is a long-standing one and likely unresolvable. (Note, for example, here.) If, in fact, health concerns played a significant role it was (IMO) likely linked to taboos against scavengers in general.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I've seen this brought up by others and read things in articles online before. Made sense to me.

Well, then; sure can't beat that for an argument.

 

[Faithofchristian]

For starters the whole Noah story arc. If not taken literally what twisted message is it trying to convey? If you take it literally there is substantial evidence against it. For instance, if all mammals are descendants from who was on the ark, we would all be horribly inbred. I can concede that the Adam and Eve stories are mythological in nature and not to be taken literally but the Noah story seems too intricate (measurements are given for how big Noah's ship should be for instance) to be dismissed as a parable/fable to teach a lesson.

I had some JW friends growing up that had some practices that didn't make sense to me. The first is their stance against blood transfusions which they support with a verse that says you shouldn't spill your brothers blood (which is clearly a rule against violence) and another that says you should not consume blood (as part of pagan rituals). Since blood transfusions were not a thing in the bronze age, I think its obvious that these verses are being tortuously twisted to support their no transfusion stance. Another is their belief to not celebrate ANYTHING other then Christ's death. This one is supported by a verse where Jesus said not to celebrate his birth but to celebrate his death since that is how we are saved. He never said to celebrate nothing but his death! In fact, didn't Jesus turn water to wine at a wedding celebration?! Before you say it, I am familiar with the JW's belief that wine back in the day was more like a grape beverage than an alcoholic one, and I don't agree with that at all. The bible makes numerous references to getting drunk on wine, so not buying it.

I'm starting this thread so as not to derail another in response to some things @Deeje asked me.

If any of you have any bible verses/claims and/or interpretations of them that don't make sense to you that you would like to discuss/debate, feel free to share.

I do agree with you.

Well it's quite obvious that people do twist the scriptures into saying what they want them to say, just to support their agendas.

Take for instance John the Baptist in the book of Luke 1:15 --"For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, And shall drink neither wine nor strong drink"

Well it's quite obvious the strong drink is not grape juice nor wine, seeing in the verse saying, ( drink neither wine nor strong drink )

Also seeing Jesus himself said in
Luke 7:34--"The Son of man is come eating and drinking"
It's quite obvious that Jesus is not talking about grape juice.

And it's quite obvious the water that Jesus turned into wine was not grape juice, Seeing how the one having feast, said unto them,
( Every man at the beginning does set forth good wine, And when men have well drunk, then that which is worse, but you has kept the good wine until now )

Seeing how after men are well drunk, then they would bring out the worse wine, seeing how those men are well drunk, wouldn't notice the difference, what was good or worse.