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Featured Bible claims/interpretations that don't make sense

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by JustWondering, Apr 21, 2018.

  1. TheBannerofHomuraAkemi

    TheBannerofHomuraAkemi Active Member

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    I don't know. It would be funny to see. But it's been over a decade since I saw that book so I can't really tell you. I don't even remember what it was called. All I can remember was it was at least sixteen inches long black and hardcover.
     
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  2. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    The Bible indicates that the flood occurred around 2369BCE.
    For almost five centuries after Abel’s death, no one is mentioned as a faithful servant of the true God. On the contrary, ungodly conduct had become the norm. It was during that spiritually degenerate time that Enoch appeared on the scene. Bible chronology sets his birth at 3404 B.C.E. Unlike his contemporaries, Enoch proved to be a man acceptable to God. Although he was surrounded by ungodliness, Enoch “kept walking with the true God,” Jehovah. It is not said that his predecessors—Seth, Enosh, Kenan, Mahalalel, and Jared—walked with God, so Enoch stood out as different, just like Noah.

    The Bible account says that there were two sources of water that were used to flood the earth. One from underground and the other from above the earth's atmosphere...not just rainwater in natural precipitation, but form what is called "the floodgates of heaven". Since the earth was already covered with water and there was already more ocean than land, it is not a stretch that it could all go under if the volume was great enough. We have all seen what happens when flash flooding occurs....everything is swept away.

    Did such a water canopy exist? It is safe to assume that if there was a water canopy surrounding the earth at one time, then it would have acted as a barrier to excessive radiation and the climate on earth would have been more uniform...more temperate. It would have been ideal for lush forests to grow in places where they cannot grow now....so have scientists found such forests....? They have.

    280-Million-Year-Old Fossil Forest Discovered in Antarctica

    The human race had been in existence for some 1656 years when the flood occurred. Taking into account that humans lived much longer before the flood, (some up to almost a thousand years,) the earth would have accommodated a lot of people....enough for Enoch to have been persecuted by the descendants of very unrighteous men.

    That is an assumption based on what? Later genetic abnormalities associated with inbreeding?

    God's laws on incest were not written until Moses gave them to Israel after their release from Egyptian slavery. (around 1513 BCE)
    There were many of God's servants who were closely related and not once in that era closer to Abraham's time do we see a problem with genetics. Abraham was married to his half sister, Sarah and Lot's daughters had sons to their father. Isaac married his cousin Rebekah....as did Jacob who married his cousin Rachel. They broke no law of God at that time because it had not been written. The gene pool was still relatively free from problems associated with inbreeding closer to the time of creation. But as time went on the gene pool became more compromised by imperfection and God introduced a law forbidding sexual union between blood relatives.

    As people migrated from Mesopotamia after the Flood, they carried accounts of the catastrophe to all parts of the earth. Thus, inhabitants of Asia, the islands of the South Pacific, North America, Central America, and South America have tales of this impressive event. The many Flood legends existed long before these people were exposed to the Bible. Yet, the legends have some basic points in common with the Biblical account of the Deluge.

    Jesus believed that the Flood was a real event and he also believed that it was global. In his great prophecy about his presence and the end of this system of things, he likened those events to the time of Noah. (Matthew 24:37-39) The apostle Peter also wrote about the floodwaters in Noah’s day: “By those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water.” (2 Peter 3:6)

    If Noah was a mythical figure and a global flood a fable, the warnings of Peter and Jesus for those living in the last days would be meaningless. Instead of serving as a warning, such ideas would confuse a person’s spiritual senses and endanger his chances of surviving a tribulation greater than the global Flood. (2 Peter 3:1-7)

    All have flood legends and humans surviving in a vessel. (see above) That could only happen if the events were true and that those who knew about the flood story from their relatives from that period, took it with them...the Bible explains why. (Genesis 11:1-9)

    I do not believe that the flood was a myth, and carbon dating is used on artifacts to determine when they were used. The only other way to determine time periods is historically...after writing was invented and humans began recording their histories.
     
  3. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    So the words "Morbidity" and "mortality" are ones you want to hear associated with something a doctor gives you as a routine treatment? OK then....your choice.

    It is because of our refusal to accept blood transfusions that the medical profession had to admit that not giving blood transfusions was getting better results that those using them. We accept infusions of saline solution which resembles ordinary sea water. It is no accident that the human circulatory system is compatible with another one of God's creations. Saline volume expanders work to save patients lives better than blood. We have proved it, time and again. Why would many hospitals be now focusing on treatments that avoid the use of blood if it was so life saving? How many people died because they received blood?....would you know? Doctors sign death certificates you know.
     
  4. Jedster

    Jedster Well-Known Member

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    I was told by a former student, who was a Muslim, that Jesus didn't turn water into wine, he turned it into grape juice.
     
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  5. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Well, I can't argue because I was not there, but I believe you are mistaken. SDA's believe that the wine Jesus made was grape juice. They had magazines too. We have never believed that. Why would the scripture use the inebriation of the patrons at the wedding if it wasn't wine? Your story doesn't hold water, sorry.

    I have already explained the origin of birthdays. Its customs are rooted in spiritism. What is so great about turning a year older anyway? Tell me what parent hasn't been a bit ashamed of a birthday child displaying some not so nice qualities as the most important person at their party?

    We have kids parties too, but it isn't to honor any 'special' child. All the children are made to feel special and where I live, the child hosting the party doesn't get gifts but gives them to the other kids to thank them for coming. I find that so much nicer.

    But what is the origin of the practice of setting aside a day to honor mothers?

    The Encyclopædia Britannica says it was: “A festival derived from the custom of mother worship in ancient Greece. Formal mother worship, with ceremonies to Cybele, or Rhea, the Great Mother of the Gods, were performed on the Ides of March throughout Asia Minor.”—(1959), Vol. 15, p. 849.

    The very titles given to Mary by the Catholic church are remnants of pagan mother-goddess worship. Ishtar was called “Holy Virgin,” “my Lady,” and “the merciful mother who listens to prayer.”

    Isis and Astarte were called “Queen of Heaven.” Cybele was styled the “Mother of all the Blest.” All these titles, with slight variations, are applied to Mary.
    Many Catholic scholars acknowledge that over the centuries, as the cult of Mary grew, her titles correspondingly increased. There is now quite a list.

    The Church teaches that Mary is the Theotokos (“God-bearer,” or “Mother of God”), a title given her only after the fourth century. It does not appear in the Bible.

    So....its up to us to determine what we celebrate and what we don't. If we find that something has dodgy origins we avoid it. A date on a calendar on which people must mindlessly perform a certain ritual, (and part with copious amounts of money) actually makes them more 'religious' than we are. We don't need a special date to remind us to love and respect our mothers...we should try to do that every day.
     
  6. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    In Islam, consumption of any intoxicants (khamr, specifically, alcoholicbeverages) is generally forbidden in the Qur'an through several separate verses revealed at different times over a period of years. At first, it was forbidden for Muslims to attend prayers while intoxicated.

    Islamic dietary laws - Wikipedia
     
  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    The problem with that is it makes the comment about breaking out the good stuff late very strange. If the guests are not inebriated they can tell the difference between good "grape juice and bad" and it would not be strange go have the good stuff second.
     
  8. JustWondering

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    Really? You don't understand that consuming raw blood can make you sick? Fatally so in some cases. Same reason the bible has laws against eating shellfood and pork, they would get sick from it. I think I read about that somewhere awhile back, it made sense to me.
     
  9. JustWondering

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    I'm talking an uncensored illustrated bible, imagine the producers of game of thrones put it together.
     
  10. JustWondering

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    So you believe the earth is Millions of years old? Doesn't that contradict what the bible directly claims? Secondly, I have no rebuttals to god using magic to flood the earth. I don't believe in magic myself, which is probably why I don't believe the bible.

    So again I don't have a rebuttal to magic. If genetics worked one way then god used magic to make genetics work a different way later then... *shrugs*. Again, I don't believe in magic....so.

    Floods happen, so it should not be surprising that there are flood myths in multiple cultures, that's just common sense. There is no evidence for a global flood. Further, the likelihood of the number of SUBSTANTIALLY different and in some cases ADVANCED civilizations existing around the world a few hundred years after a great flood is ridiculous. The Noah's ark story simply doesn't mesh with reality, it just doesn't.
     
  11. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    A canopy of water over the Earth would have been impossible. Supposing for sake of argument there was one and the floodgates are released....

    Noah and all his family and animals would have been boiled alive like a lobster.
     
  12. JustWondering

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    There are some products that can be used in place of blood but in a lot of cases a product made from a donors blood is the only thing we have that will work. So far, there is no substitute for the oxygen carrying ability of red blood cells. That's just medical science. If your god is so very offended by the idea of blood transfusions I'm sure he could have done something about it. So either god doesn't care, or he's a bad planner, IMO.
     
  13. JustWondering

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    Lol, I KNOW they are Jehovah's witnesses, I grew up with them, known them most of my life. After High School they rebelled for awhile and lived like sinners, then they settled down with wives and kids and went back to being proper JW's. One of them met their wife at Kingdom Hall. They said what they said, if that ruffles your feathers than, not much I can do about that.

    Whatever floats your boat. However, any celebration can only have what meaning YOU put into it. If YOU are celebrating your child's birthday, YOU are likely celebrating the day YOUR child came into YOUR life, and the joy their addition to YOUR family brought YOU. YOU don't have to attach any goofy spiritual or pagan things to any celebration you have. It's up to you. Just saying. I celebrate birthdays, Christmas, and new year. I don't observe any spiritual/religious origins those celebrations had. They are just excuses to be with family and friends and have fun.
     
  14. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    No, it doesn't. The "days" in Genesis do not have to be 24 hour periods because the word "yohm" (day) can mean a period of undetermined length. In Genesis 2:4 it speaks of all of creation as occurring in a "day". These periods have a beginning and an end but the time in between is not indicated. That leaves plenty of room for science to be correct along with the Bible. The earth is very ancient and so is early creation.

    There was no "magic"...you do understand the difference between "power" and "magic" I assume?
    Does science know about every kind of power there is in the universe? Science cannot discount the existence of a power that created the universe. It didn't get here by accident because nothing comes from nothing. The law of cause and effect means the universe had a cause. Science cannot categorically deny that the power that created the universe displayed intelligence. It just wants to deny it.

    Do humans who "create" rely on "magic" Or do they use skill and methodology to accomplish a finished work?
    Does an architect in collaboration with a construction company build a skyscraper with "magic"? Do you disbelieve that they can construct such a building using their engineering skills and well considered choice of materials? What is "magic" about that? Perhaps you need to lose "the big magician in the sky" image? [​IMG] It isn't serving you well.

    The flood legends all have a very similar scenario. They are found in very different cultures so that rules out coincidence. There is evidence for a global flood but you won't accept it. :shrug:

    We already talked about that. Bible claims/interpretations that don't make sense

    Having laid down his law on blood from the time of Noah, humans who break this laws will answer to God, not us.

    I think you have a higher opinion of medical science than it deserves. People seem to be slowly waking up to the fact that the practice of medicine these days is all about expensive drugs that often make you sicker than the disease that they are treating you for. There are no cures for the most part but always a continuous supply of pharmaceuticals. Like drugs, blood is a huge money spinner.
    Have you ever looked up the cost of a single unit of blood used in a hospital?

    "...the total cost of RBC transfusion per patient transfused in the surgical setting of this hospital was US$ 3433. The total cost of a unit of RBC was US$ 1,158 (2007 value), of which, indirect overhead, total transfusion process cost, weighted average acquisition cost and direct overhead cost per unit accounted for 40.6%, 34.0%, 21.5% and 3.9%, respectively. This study shows that the true cost of blood transfusion is much higher than the nominal value currently assigned to each unit of blood."

    The True Cost of Red Blood Cell Transfusion in Surgical Patients

    Cash cows are seldom slaughtered...no matter how high the risk, they will find excuses to keep making money.

    If we do not teach this, then your friends were not well educated. Any wonder they went off the rails....what else did they not understand? I am glad to hear that they returned and hopefully learned the truth about the wine and a lot of other things.

    I am amused that some people see believers as slaves to their God or to their religion, but don't you think being dictated to about dates on a calendar with mass participation isn't a form of slavery? Haven't you wandered through a department store or even a supermarket when they have finished with one "celebration date"....then gone straight on to the next one? Who are the slaves? Like sheep lining up to be fleeced. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I don't know how many people I see in the supermarket around Christmas time stressed out because of the expectations of the holiday. If they ask if I have finished my "Christmas shopping" and I tell them I don't celebrate Christmas, the look on their face tells me that they envy me. No one seems to realize that its their choice to keep doing this to line the pockets of greedy commercial interests. Who is laughing all the way to the bank whilst you struggle to pay off last years purchases on your credit card. When is it time to say "enough"! [​IMG]
     
  15. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Not necessarily so. The suspension of the water canopy was not a natural occurrence. According to the apostle Peter, it was held there at God's command. (2 Peter 3:5-6) He has authority over his own creation.

    And since the atmosphere now is the one that resulted from the flood...are you boiled like a lobster? Or do you just have to be sensible about being in the sun? [​IMG]
     
  16. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    So magic again.

    Deeje, you claim "not magic" but here you go posting about a magic spell again.

    By the way, we know that there was no flood. Would you care to learn how we know it never happened?
     
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  17. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    Even Answers in Genesis admits the futility of using the water canopy "Theory". It's since abandoned using it although they're "hoping" for a comeback.

    The Collapse of the Canopy Model
     
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  18. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    AIG is not a site I go to for my references.

    I take scripture as the real "answer in Genesis"....

    Genesis 1:6-7...."Then God said: “Let there be an expanse between the waters, and let there be a division between the waters and the waters.7 Then God went on to make the expanse and divided the waters beneath the expanse from the waters above the expanse. And it was so."

    There was a division between the waters above and below the expanse. Everything written in Genesis was a simple explanation of what could be observed from an earthly perspective....and it was not written for scientists who would not know a great deal about anything for thousands of years.

    The apostle Peter stated something that most people would overlook....a supernatural God can override natural laws.

    "First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4 and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.” For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water. 7 But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people." (2 Peter 3:3-7)

    The canopy was held in place by the command of God, so natural forces were not needed. Finding a "natural" explanation is not necessary for Bible believers.

    The important thing to note is what the flood means symbolically for those of us who are alive at the time of the end. Even Jesus used it to illustrate what the prevailing attitudes of people would be.....

    "For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be." (Matthew 24:37-39)

    Do you see the earth again filled with violence? I believe we are about to see another catastrophic end to a completely corrupted world....just as Jesus warned. How many people listened to Noah?
     
  19. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    I don't have to imagine an illustrated bible book.

    My introduction to religion/christianity was in Sunday school around age 8 or 9. My main recollection was the cutesy pictures of giraffes with their heads sticking out of the top of the arc.

    Two weeks was about all I could stand. That's when I realized that there was as much truth in the bible as there was in my comic books.

    No silly arc - no silly god.
     
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  20. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    All meat contains blood.

    I have been eating raw ground beef, now they call it steak tartare, since I was a child. I like my steaks bloody rare.

    Raw tuna, sushi, does not cause illness if properly prepared.

    Raw shellfish is safe to eat. Raw shellfish can also be deadly. The people of the OT didn't know that shellfish safety depended on the seasons.

    A lot of things, 3000 years ago, were banned due to ignorance. To continue these prohibitions today is nonsensical. On the other hand, eating Romaine lettuce can also make you sick.
     
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